ZVZ vaccine

[Ihaveittoo1975]

Hi everyone,

 

After getting the "fun" diagnose (still waiting on test results but doc seemed certain and I am too) I have immersed myself with what internet has to offer on the subject. I ended up here and so far this seems to be the beat place to get "real experience" information.

 

As most others getting the news I have been questioning what my future will look like and how to go from here. I have good support behind me which helps, but I still feel really bad about it. I have never been close to anything like this in my 39 years of life. Now I have to accept that I have it and try to make the best of it. I am trying to see the good parts in this diagnose, such as a good motivator to exercise more and eat even healthier and to any future relationships where I will hold off on sex much longer than I used to may lead to a deeper connection to the person I do meet. Yes, I am already thinking about dating and the many success stories I have read here are definitely encouraging.

 

One of the topics I have come across browsing online was about taking a shot of the chickenpox vaccine ZVZ to prevent any further outbreaks. There was a clinical study done on 24 HSV1 & 2+ individuals and after some five years later NONE of them had had a single ob. I know 24 people is not a big study group, but a 100% success rate is quite impressive.

 

My first (and still current) outbreak has been rather mild with no painful blisters and very limited other symptoms. I am otherwise a very healthy person and rather seldom get sick. Just like everyone else I of course would love to not have any recurring ob's so this article about the ZVZ vaccine really caught my interest.

 

Those of you with more "experience" dealing with H, is this a treatment you have done or heard about?

 

Here is the link to the study. The full report can be found in pdf format by clicking on a link within the article.

 

http://www.dovepress.com/efficacy-of-the-anti-vzv-anti-hsv3-vaccine-in-hsv1-and-hsv2-recurrent--peer-reviewed-article-OAJCT

 

 

Many thanks.

[ihaveittoo]

Although I can't tell by the post it appears I have a little brother or sister. Welcome.

 

Interesting article. If outbreaks can be permanently stopped I would be satisfied. I imagine asymptomatic shedding would still be a concern.

[willow]

Less to no o.b. ... less to no prodromes... i would have to assume asymponmatic shedding would decrease too wouldnt it?

[PositivelyBeautiful]

Apparently this is not the first time this study has been discussed on the forum:

http://herpeslife.com/herpes-forum/discussion/2349/herpes-vaccine-valid-or-totally-bogus/p1

[seeker]

seems like a small group they tested it on. I posted about a halt on a phase 3 test for a pill that at 75 mg a day or 400 1x a week would reduce shedding and OBs significantly because it showed toxicity at @ 900x the normal dose in monkeys, well duh. oxygen at 900x the normal level would kill you. It will be several years for anything new to come out as the current players are making wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much green frog skins with antivirals we have to take daily. the system is rigged for the established big guys.

[WCSDancer2010]

@Ihaveittoo1975

 

Hello and Welcome!

 

There are tons of talks on here about vaccines and such ... our first advice is to not get "stuck" on the idea of a cure ... not that you don't want to be aware but I personally have seen many, many "promises" of a cure in the 35 yrs I've had H ... if I had decided to put my personal or love life on hold while waiting for the cure I'd be one lonely and miserable human being :p

 

So this article is about trials for using the Shingles vaccine to control H1 and 2 ... but as mentioned, the study group is small. We can cross fingers that they will be doing more studies to see if the results can be replicated. Many new drugs/treatments started as a treatment for something else.... and given it's already in production it could be put into place faster than anything else that's in the works. One can *hope* that they are still doing trials with this one, but as @seeker said, the system is not in a hurry to find a cure :(

 

And I promise if a vaccine/cure is ever passed, you will see it here ... ;)

 

Here's some past conversations for your interest:

 

http://herpeslife.com/herpes-forum/discussion/comment/19425

http://herpeslife.com/herpes-forum/discussion/comment/18967

http://herpeslife.com/herpes-forum/discussion/3786

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpes_simplex_research

http://www.providencejournal.com/business/press-releases/20141008-nanobio-to-present-data-demonstrating-the-potential-for-its-intranasal-vaccine-to-protect-against-genital-herpes-infection.ece

http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/IDWeek/48051

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/819306 Pritelivir and the 900x/dose trial

[seeker]

hmm, i just realized, i never had chickenpox as a kid. maybe i should get the vaccine just as a precaution.

[seeker]

so anyone know if getting the vaccine might cause OBs or how antivirals might react? I just tried binging it and holy crap all the stuff!!!

[WCSDancer2010]

I'm not finding anything negative and the original article is suggesting it would help to control the HSV virus ... so it shouldn't cause OB's.

[whitedaisies]

Re I haveittoo original post,

 

I find this weird....how would a chicken pox vaccine help reduce obs but someone who has chicken pox antibodies from having the actual chicken pox in their blood not have the same result.

 

Please tell me I am missing sthng on how this works.

[WCSDancer2010]

I have no idea how it works friend ... I'm not a microbiologist :p

 

There's something weird that happens with the Varicella virus that causes Chicken Pox as a child but later becomes Shingles.... so whatever this vaccine is, it interrupts that ... but don't ask me how :/

[whitedaisies]

Lol why can't u be a microbiologist and...

 

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[Newlook2013]

@whitedaisies,

"maybe" its bcos the chickenpox virus is known to go dormant for a loooong time after initial outbreak unlike hsv. hence, maybe the antibodies to the chickenpox might want to go to sleep for a while...but a chickenpox vaccine might not allow the antibodies to sleep.....just maybe.

 

I just pasted below qstn and answer from Bill Hayford's( a microbiology prof) scienceblog which is quite relative to the discussion...... "http://herpesvaccine.scienceblog.com/2013/06/15/purpose-of-the-herpes-vaccine-blog/"

 

Peter: September 8, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

Hi Bill

Perhaps you could clarify a few points on the differences between EBV, HSV1 and

Shingles etc. Reason for query…I have suffered from HSV1 since childhood and it is affecting pain in my eyes, ears and scalp. Four years ago I received the shingles vaccine and like magic my

outbreaks ceased. They have just started again, this time with underarm swelling

and am wondering whether my response

to the shingles vaccine is anecdotal?

Also, would a second dose of shingles vaccine have any harmful effects?

Merck does not have research data to

support top-up.

 REPLY

 

Bill Halford: September 15, 2013 at 10:57 am#

Hi Peter,

Please forgive the delayed response.

I have been up to my eyeballs with medical school teaching responsibilities.

At the bottom of this post, I will cut-and-

paste and a paragraph from a book chapter I wrote two years ago that clarifies the relationship between EBV,

HSV-1, and shingles…..the bottom line

you need to know for now is that these are 3 of the 8 known human herpesviruses. The next thing you need to

know is that Epstein-Barr Virus,cytomegalovirus, and HHV-6, HHV-7,

and HHV-8 live in blood cells (macrophage, B cells, or T cells), and

thus really don’t have much to do with

herpes simplex virus 1 and 2 beyond

sharing a common evolutionary

ancestry….dinosaurs would have had

herpesviruses…..they have been around

for eons…..today they are found in fish,

crocodiles, seals, kangaroos, oysters.

Collectively, there are more than 130

known herpesviruses, and 8 of them infect humans. So, now having addressed

all of the irrelevant viruses above that

bear the word “herpesvirus” in their name,

we come to three human viruses that

are close relatives: HSV-1, HSV-2,

and VZV. HSV-1 and HSV-2 are, as you

know, incredibly similar viruses. Varicella-zoster virus(VZV) is also a very

similar virus, and shares at least 50

(if not 60) genes in common with HSV-1

and HSV-2. To put a ballpark number on

it, VZV is 25–50% similar to HSV-1,

whereas HSV-2 is ~98% similar to HSV-1.

Elsewhere in this blog, I refer to a French study that reported something

comparable to what you describe above:

http://www.dovepress.com/efficacy-of-the-anti-vzv-anti-hsv3-vaccine-in-hsv1-

and-hsv2-recurrent–peer-reviewed-

article-OAJCT-MVP

The short answer to your question is that,

“No it would not hurt you to get another

shingles vaccine.”

The difference between the “chickenpox

vaccine” and the “shingles vaccine” is

that the shingles vaccine contains a 13-

fold higher concentration of live-attenuated VZV Oka strain virus in each

shot. So, if this approach is going to

work, it would make sense that the

shingles vaccine would be better than

the chickenpox vacccine (because there

is 13x more virus available to engage

your immune system).

Regarding why it might work is that

VZV and HSV-2 share a lot of viral

proteins in common.

The reality is that this is how we stopped

the spread of the human disease smallpox……we immunized people with

a similar,but distinct virus, originally

isolated from the cowpox lesions that

cows get on their udders. This “cowpox

virus” was not identical to the “smallpox

virus,” but they had enough in common

that the cowpox vaccination elicited an

immune response that CROSS-PROTECTED against its close cousin the

smallpox virus.

The cowpox virus was first isolated by

Edward Jenner in the 1790s, and he

published a paper in 1798 reporting the cross-

protection against the deadly smallpox virus

(which killed 25% of Europe’s population on

more than one occasion).

After 1798, the virus was passed from

vaccine recipient to vaccine recipient

who developed a pock lesion at the site

of vaccination that was loaded with

the vaccine virus. Eventually, the virus

came to be known as the “vaccinia virus,”

and this is precisely the origination of

the term “vaccination.” Originally, the

term was introduced in contrast to the

term “variolation.” Variolation meant

to deliberately inoculate people with the

virus that caused smallpox (i.e., the

variola virus). Variolation did protect people against smallpox, but 1-2% of

people variolated developed smallpox

disease and died. In contrast “vaccination” was a much safer

alternative and yet still elicited

protection against smallpox.

Louis Pasteur developed a “rabies

vaccine” in the late 1800s,and so named the procedure in honor of Jenner’s

discovery of the “vaccination” procedure

to prevent smallpox. Hence, Louis Pasteur (nearly 100 years later) gave us

the modern meaning of vaccination,

which means “injecting someone with

a benign substance that is antigenically

related to a disease-causing microbe in

order to elicit an immune response that

is CROSS-PROTECTIVE against the

disease-causing microbe.” I digress.

The relevant point is that we cured

smallpox with a SIMILAR, BUT DISTINCT

vaccinia virus that was derived from

cowpox. Likewise, many countries use

the BCG vaccine to reduce the incidence

of tuberculosis caused by Mycobacterium. tuberculosis.

The active ingredient in the BCG vaccine

is a related bacterium known as

Mycobacterium bovis…..SIMILAR,

BUT DISTINCT from the agent of

tuberculosis.

So Peter, yes, there is a historical

precedent for the phenomenon you

describe of using VZV which is SIMILAR,

BUT DISTINCT from HSV-1 in order to

elicit an immune response that is CROSS-

PROTECTIVE. against diseases caused by HSV-1. If this is true, I note that a

live- attenuated HSV-1 vaccine would

be more effective as a therapeutic

vaccine, as there would be 99.9%

similarity to your HSV-1 virus as

opposed to the 25-50% similarity of

the. VZV vaccine.

However, the difference is that you can

get a shingles vaccine today, whereas

a live- attenuated HSV-1 vaccine is

still far off on the horizon. I would not

necessarily predict that VZV vaccination

would be CROSS- PROTECTIVE against

HSV-1 or HSV-2, but if it works, then

who am I to knock success? Thanks for

the interesting query.

–

Bill H.

———————————————

 

[WCSDancer2010]

@Newlook2013

 

Fascinating ... and it totally makes sense .... going to research this a lot more .. ;)

[whitedaisies]

Great read new look thx

 

 

[PositivelyBeautiful]

@newlook2013, what a fascinating blog. Thanks for sharing the link!!

[Newlook2013]

deleted.