Valtrex Daily + Condoms = Do I Really Need to Disclose?

[Bambina3]

@WCSDancer2010

 

I keep looking for a like button and can't find one lol

But if there was one I'd like the above post

[hippyherpy]

I take it as a point of pride when I disclose successfully (meaning disclosure that leads to sex), but last night I was with a girl who really wanted to have sex with me. I disclosed and it was too much for her. We didn't have sex. That blows (no pun intended- nothing blew last night hehe), and I think it vexed me to a point of even giving me prodromes.

 

It got me thinking that I need to up my disclosure game more to give her a better perspective of what it means.

 

The only new thing I could think to tell her was that I have had several girls since getting diagnosed that haven't gotten it from me.

 

The problem with disclosure is you are telling them something with intention of being open, and hopefully to manage their anxieties by dispelling the bullshit myths that create stigma, but the fact that you have to disclose does make heroes a big deal. There's no way to down play that that I can think of.. yet.

 

 

[hippyherpy]

I also want to say that the rejection that comes from having herpes is different from the typical rejection.

 

Last night, the girl wanted to have sex with me.. a lot. I wasn't getting rejected, but the herpes were. I'm trying to not take any herpes rejections personally.

 

It's an interesting topic though.. I wonder, if I was someone famous like Derek Jeter or whatever, would the rejection still happen, or would it be a baseline rejection no matter who it was?

 

That's when it starts to become more personal.

 

Can your perceived value as a person be high enough to override someone's fears? I say this not to bring into the equation the risk transmissions because I'm confident that I won't pass it on to my partners at this point with the condoms and valtrex (If I wasn't confident in it, I wouldn't be having sex with them in the first place).

 

I think that the point the paragraph right above this one is crucial. It's about trust. If they can trust you enough to believe you.

 

How can we explain risks in a way that will show that the fear isn't really relevant if the infected party is doing everything that can be done?

 

The car accident risk analogy is a good one (greater chance of getting into a car accident than catching herpes from someone who is taking pills and condoms). Are there others out there like that? Please put them here.

[Bambina3]

@hippyherpy when you speak of trust are these women you've known a long time, or time enough to build that trust, or just meets for casual sex?

I think it's difficult in a meet for sex to have an automatic trust for someone you hardly know....

If I was in the other foot and we had no bond I'd turn away too, and I am that hsv2 positive person I'd turn from.

[2Legit2Quit]

IMHP, I would never down play G that much and make them so confident, that they are 100% confident they can't get it, because that would be a lie and second, it sets them up to feel almost as angry as someone who was lied to. This is just how I view it. I need them to know that there is a chance, ask them how they'd feel about getting it and if they would resent me? I want someone to be mentally prepared, in the event they had a surprise one morning in the bathroom. I don't like sugar coating anything in life. This is just my own pov.

[hippyherpy]

Not sugar coating but giving some objective perspective counter balance the over hyped stigma.

 

Otherwise don't have sex with people if you are worried you are going to give it to them.

[2Legit2Quit]

It's in my personal opinion I is sugar coating. Everyone has different sets of moral standards and mine are pretty rigid. To each their own.

[hippyherpy]

You seem to want to "salt-coat" all of this by explaining the worst possible scenarios.

 

What's the point of telling someone "it's the same risk as getting in a car accident or less" if that's sugar-coating? That's a true risk.

 

Let's make a list of everything else out there that has a similar or greater risk to creating permanent change in someone's life.

[2Legit2Quit]

I'm telling them facts. Nothing I said would be me saying how horrible it is. Me disclosing that regardless there is still a risk despite preventive measures is an HONEST FACT. That's not me "salt-coating" anything. That is being completely honest w the person and letting them make the choice knowing there is still a risk and not giving them false information that it cannot be spread so long as we use condoms and meds. My role is disclosure is to give a choice and all the facts, not to persuade them under false pretenses, just for my benefit because I don't want to lose them. I couldn't live w myself telling them I'm 100% confident that they won't get it from me, because that would be a bold face lie. That is basically saying it's impossible to not transmit since webuse condoms and I'm on meds.

[hippyherpy]

I think you can be confident if the rate of transmission is 1%.

 

You don't say impossible, because there is always a slim chance, but that's it.

 

What's wrong with pointing out the risk and also comparing to other similar risks that aren't as stigmatized?

[2Legit2Quit]

I actually question those Numbers and that rate is for female to male, not male to female. It's 4% for male to female using condoms and meds. Again, not 100% when there's still a risk.

 

I'm not sure I grasp your last question

[hippyherpy]

Nope not 4%. I was told by a certified specialist that it was less than 1%, and this website says 2.5%.

 

My last question has to do with things like the car accident rate being higher than herpes transmission rate, yet people easily hop in cars while get freaked out over heroes.

 

More examples of that kind of analogy are what I'm looking for.

[Bambina3]

Not sure I even buy the rate of transmission, I think it's higher because a lot of people are undiagnosed.

I took some time to read thru this thread, although I do feel some sort of moral obligation to disclose, we all know I have yet to do it in a direct manner.

I do agree with some of what hippyherpy is saying, both parties involved need to take some responsibility in the sexual arena...I obviously used poor judgement or trusted the wrong person, but I always asked up front about std history....if they lied to me, shame on them...you always have cases where a person doesn't know (was my scene) or the very good selfish liar...or the honest person....it's a gamble, and it's your life.

[2Legit2Quit]

@hippyherpy we went over this w you already. It is irrelevant what your specialist said. He did not run the study nor is he a part of it. His information was incorrect. You have a habit of picking and choosing what information you will accept and that information you will accept, is what is in favor of what you want to believe only and the only reason I can reason why you continue w the same arguments.. You have to start being honest w yourself. Dancer told you as well in regards to his opinion previously.

 

I'm not sure the purpose of you still bringing up argument's you've made from months ago, that people have gone through w you already. Are you waiting for someone to tell you that you can't pass it w out a doubt? If so, that's not going to happen. That's the only reaosn I can fathom why you keep fighting this, even after it seems like you got it. Please feel free to just share what it is really you want the answer to, instead of doing cross examinations. Going in circles is not conducive.

[WCSDancer2010]

Not sugar coating but giving some objective perspective counter balance the over hyped stigma.

 

Telling a person that because you have not (to your knowledge) passed H on to any of your past partners that they are safe with you IS sugar coating it - and we have people on here who got H from someone that told them EXACTLY that.... and they DID get it from the person. Now, to be fair, I don't think the carrier was on anti-virals but they had been asymptomatic and (to their knowledge) not passed it on... until that point.

 

AGAIN: there IS a 2.5% chance of M-F transmission with meds and condoms (according to OUR sources which include Dr Peter Leone who is a renowned Herpes specialist) ... and just as with car accidents, sometimes you just pull the short straw and get unlucky.

 

I do feel that you are looking for every way to convince every girl that wants to screw you to override her personal deal breakers, rather than honoring that it is their RIGHT to walk away AND it's nothing personal.

 

If you were that easily affected by ONE rejection after all your previous successes, it leads me to believe that you are needing these conquests as some sort of validation about your worthiness... because if you didn't care either way, it wouldn't bother you if the girl walked away for ANY reason. I expect you will try to prove to me that I'm wrong, and that's ok... but lets just say I've been around this block a LOT and I usually manage to get to what is REALLY going on for a person, even if they can't currently see it themselves.... so if your first reaction is to want to deny my suggestion, perhaps you could just sit with it a bit before reacting ... because often the last person to realize some home truths about themselves is usually the person in question :)

 

AND

 

The rejection response is a very primitive survival reaction... meaning that it really doesn't matter *why* we have been rejected, our bodies will physically react in certain ways and our minds will do what it can to get us to be accepted...including doing everything we can to find a way to convince someone to be with us (whether it's over H or anything else). We will try to think up ANY reason to get the person to stay. The opposite reaction to this is to completely withdraw from dating (as many with H do) so as to not risk rejection... it's THAT powerful of an instinct.

 

I'm going to give you some great links on rejection below ... and I urge you to really stop trying to find any new spin to use to get the girls to bed you, and rather, work on your self esteem and finding ways to be ok with rejection and to be able to honor if a girl *chooses* to walk away.

 

Otherwise don't have sex with people if you are worried you are going to give it to them.

 

I am not "worried" that I will pass it on, but I am AWARE that I *could*. I don't sugar coat my disclosure nor do I salt-coat it. I tell the TRUTH... which includes the stats, and the fact that odds are if they are at all sexually active that they *likely* have already have been exposed to someone with H, that I will do everything I can to protect them, AND, there IS a risk, however small, of them getting it. And once I know I have told them the FACTS and that they understand them (some guys are really thick... I had one try to tell me numerous times that he can look at a girls vajajay and tell if she has an STD... *sigh* ) then I allow them to take responsibility for their decision and I take responsibility for being vigilant in my body and honest when I think there *might* be something going on that would make it sensible to find some other way to play (which can STILL be one hell of a fun night!)

 

http://www.match.com/magazine/article/4010/I-Have-a-Secret-How-to-Reveal-It-To-Your-Date/ (IE: There are many, MANY things that people are afraid to disclose about themselves when dating for fear of rejection

 

http://supporttruthanddialog.com/rejection_its-all-about-perspective/ (my blog)

http://herpeslife.com/herpes-forum/discussion/4699/first-real-disclosure-first-real-rejection Rejection as your teacher…..

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201307/10-surprising-facts-about-rejection

[2Legit2Quit]

Standing ovation for that post @wcsdancer2010 ! Holy shit you have never nailed a post like you did this one!/so impressed.

[hippyherpy]

Ok so next time someone gets in a car that you are driving maybe you should explain to them how there's a slim but very real possibility that they are going to die or get s permanent injury.

 

Do you see my point?

 

We don't do that. Yet people get in cars all the time.

 

Telling someone they are safe with me.. It's the same thing as the car analogy. Maybe the car thing is even worse- people put their kids in cars all the time but there is still that slim but real possibility that the kid will be at risk of dying or permanent injury.

 

Yet driving a car doesn't have anywhere near the same stigma that having condom/Valtrex/hsv2 has.

 

When I disclose, I tell them the probability.

 

And by the way I don't care if a particular girl walks away. I can meet other people. There are a lot of reasons why things don't work between people that have nothing to do with herpes.

 

That doesn't mean that I'm not going to still try to improve my quality of life with herpes.

 

It does come down to how you feel about having sex with this virus. You are putting someone at risk, even if it is slight, of catching it.. even if they agree to have sex with you. You have to be cool with that.

 

I do want to tell the stats, but one thing that you guys don't seem to understand with regards to this is that stats and math don't make sense to a lot of people. The car thing does. I'm looking for other examples, like the car thing, that can help to communicate what the risk is like.

 

I don't understand why you are getting so upset over this.

 

It is still disclosing. It's not sugar coating anything. it sounds to me like you guys might not like what I'm saying because it isn't your exact prescription for disclosure.

[2Legit2Quit]

No, we don't, because people get in cars understanding that. People have no choice but to use transportation, to get around in their daily lives and they are making that choice and are aware of the risks. Sex isnt a daily requirement in their lives This analogy does not absolve you of responsibility. Do you think that at some point you are going to break Dancer or I down, to finally agree w you; tell youyou - you don't have to disclose, because the risks are so minimal? because that's not going to happen, no matter how many times you give the same argument or how many times you change the wording. It's not going to change.

 

You don't get to decide for someone if they have the aptitude to understand the statistics. Why so much resistqnce w adding an additional piece of info to your disclosures, as youve already done the hard part by disclosing? There's no justification about not being forthcoming, no matter how you paint it for us. Telling someone you can't pass this to them at all, because you're on meds and use condoms is deceitful.

 

I can assure you we don't care how you disclose, so long as you tell the truth and the whole truth and not add fancy spins to it. That's all we care about.

[hippyherpy]

It sounds like you are more interested in arguing with me than trying to help. Why bother?

 

I'm asking for other analogies, for them and for myself.

 

It sounds like you are living with the worst case scenario for here's and are trying to paint everything trough that lens. Please stop. It's not helpful when you come in making personal attacks of me. It won't gel your own situation.

 

I'm not deciding whether someone gets the stats or not. I'm telling you, from my wrap all experience, that the stats explained as numbers and percentages don't communicate as well to some people I've met what this is all about. Like I said, I mention the stats.

 

Stop putting words in my mouth- I don't tell people they can't get it. I tell them them the truth that the chance is almost 100% that they won't get it from me.

[2Legit2Quit]

Actually, every single person when you first came on, disagreed w you and you didn't listen to one thing anyone said, because you only want to hear what you want to hear. You continues to bring up the same argument w us over and over and over and over, so it's safe to say that you're struggling w not being right and you are trying to brow beat us so to speak, to agree w you.

 

I'm here to provide support. If you haven't noticed it is Dancer and I who provide most of the support. When she's not here, I step up more. I'm sorry you feel that way. Our job is to help people to understand why disclosure is so important and it's something that creates much psychological dissonance in you, that we simply will not agree w you and say what you want to hear.

 

Actually, since I've been on here, I've not witnessed the constant debate over disclosure to this point before and someone expend so much energy on why they shouldn't. This ia definitely a new situation for me. Dancer has been doing this the longest, so I'm sure she's come across others like yourself.

 

I actually don't have worst case scenario. My primary was, but there are others on here, including males that are struggling w more symptoms than I am, so you would be incorrect on that. Dancer and others have told you the same thing, who DON'T struggle w symptoms as I'm telling you. You just don't want to hear it and it angers you that anyone disputes your argument. You want someone to say that you are right and I feel certain, that's the only way you'd let this go. Honesty and full disclosure is the policy here and that is what we're trying to convey. I'm sorry if that's not what you're looking for. Other people on here, are not struggling w what you are in disclosure at this point of time.

 

There were zero personal attacks on you. Zero. Dancer was more forward w you, than I was. I simply gave my personal opinion, which I'm allowed to do.

 

Your last statement you sent saying that you don't tell them they won't get it from you, but then contradict those words, by following up w "it's almost 100% that they won't get it from me". Previous posts, you have said that you're 100% positive they won't get it from you.

 

Disclose how you want to disclose, but you can't get upset of others opinions and their personal belief system, unless stated that it's only if they agree w you. I shared how in my own POV and what's my honest opinion, on how I'd feel about it myself, if I were to follow your practice. That's not attacking you. I gave you examples of how I feel w disclosure and why. Why does an opposite opinion of yours feel like such a personal attack to you? You also stated that both Dancer and i just want you to disclose the way we want you to disclose and is the reason we don't agree w you. You said: "It is still disclosing. It's not sugar coating anything. it sounds to me like you guys might not like what I'm saying because it isn't your exact prescription for disclosure." Well couldn't we say the same about you?

 

Everybody's truth is different for them and for me, your " truth" is a blurry line on the edge of deciet, just like you say my truth, is just doom and gloom .basically; . which my truth, is disclosing the facts given to us from this site, which we specifically encourage to use in their disclosure. So if your opinion of my disclosure is bad to you, then the sites disclosure policy recommendations would be "bad" to you as well. People deserve all the facts.

 

Disclose however you feel you want to, I just don't understand why you can't accept us disagreeing w you and why so much fight on it.

[hippyherpy]

Actually you are lying right here saying that "everyone disagrees" with me when people here have commented that they don't completely disagree and I've had people message me that they agree with me.

 

I'm not arguing against disclosure. I'm looking for other analogies like th car one.

 

I say almost 100% certain. the almost is there. I don't say 100%.

 

 

[2Legit2Quit]

One person agreed partly, that it is on others as well, but this person has trouble disclosing as well and has not been forthcoming, due to fear w disclosing to their partners. So there's that. What we're talking about now is, not disclosing statistics. We don't care about others, we who are knowingly infected bare responsibility and what we're addressing on this site, what is the right thing to do for those of us who are aware of our status. We're responsible only for our actions and how we choose to live our lives and it may just be me, but I live by being responsible of myself only and not deflect blame or responsibility on others. Growth is impossible z when we're focused on what others do or don't do in a situation w us, rather than just staying in their lane and doing work on themselves. People think just not sharing something w someone that the other person should know, isn't considered lying, but it is. It's called lying by omission. This I am against.

[hippyherpy]

I had disclosed to one girl and told her "I have herpes" she didn't care and didn't need to hear the stats.

 

I do want people who freak out on hearing sldisclosure not to be freaked out based on stigma,and will explain the stats to give them an objective perspective on herpes. I can go into explaining all of this, and am looking for analogies that will make it easier to communicate what the stats mean. Not everyone is a mathematician.

[2Legit2Quit]

Lol.... Hmm... Honestly, I can't think of a better analogy than that to be honest. Let me think on that some more. Maybe googling 2% statistics risks a year will turn up something. Let me do some googling later and see what I can find.

[Bambina3]

I'm hearing the condescending attitudes come out in this thread...

Granted, at times it can be frustrating dealing with people who do not understand, or who choose not to listen to those who have been down this road, but we all have a common ground, this disease.

 

i can't think of any analogies to help you right now, but if it makes you feel better to quote stats, then quote them. There are some people who will freak out on you, regardless of how you handle it for disclosure....I am fully aware of that.