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Non Disclosure


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I came back to this forum from four years prior. I said I would not disclose to individuals and I have not. The basis was this, in my small town there are no secrets. You tell one person your secret you tell everyone. It becomes known and then spread through out. 

Right now the town has 6900 people living in it. Within about an hour there is a maybe of a total of 100 potential dating partners in my age group. (Mid 30s.) I have no kids. Never been married. However I have lived in this area long enough that I know most of the people who have STDs. And a lot of that information has actually turned out to be accurate. Rumors spread but a lot of that is because of disclosures that get out. People in our town try to make it out to be no big deal just like this forum suggests. However it gets out and fast after a disclosure. 

It is a small town, simple minded and not accepting of the disease even more so then the general population. I have sat through talks that I have heard about them saying to stay the hell the way from this girl or that girl. The girls say the same thing about what Men they hear have something and to not get involved with them. 

I can not move because my business is here. I was given this because I dated a 22 year old who I wasnt aware of her history or where she moved from when I was 31. Now four years later I am back looking to settle down. I can not disclose because it would end all possibilities I have. I do not have sex with the individual I date, and that has been bad. 

I am not looking for permission for non disclosure I am looking for any type of success stories that you have had with starting sexual relationships with being careful with Condoms and Suppressants. I may never be able to disclose but I havent had a serious relationship in four years now and its getting late in the game. I was lied to believed the lie. She wasn't concerned about my health and I am actually concerned about the other individual. 

Wanted to get some thoughts on it.

 

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Jenn88 : I do not feel like I have a choice. In this town people reject you before you even start out. I get that sleeping with someone without disclosing without a condom is wrong. I want to take precautions. Not disclosing is something that will be really hard for me, at the same time I can not disclose after listening to what the people in my town say about the people who do. Loneliness is a silent killer. If you look at the book Ben Sasse just wrote he quotes studies about how loneliness can be as unhealthy as smoking for a person. I am in a horrible spot because of failure of an individual to disclose. However I never would have dated that individual given them a chance had I known. 

 

MarieH: I am sorry that you are having your first outbreak. I know that is a difficult if not traumatic experience. It can be very painful physically and the emotional pain is worse. Would you have ever been with that person sexually had they disclosed the fact that have Herpes and that there was a good chance you would contract it if you were with them?

 

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Unlucky:

I feel your pain. I'm the same age and single. The few times I've attempted to date, I've chosen to disclose. Here's why:

I do not know who I contracted my HSV2 from. I asked the men I'd been with in recent years, and they all claim to be clean. It's hard enough to accept that I have this virus for the rest of my life, let alone have no one to blame but myself. I can't imagine knowingly putting someone else in that position. What if you decide not to disclose and a strong relationship builds?  Let's say it's 2 years into this relationship and your partner finds your meds. How do you explain that? What happens if your partner runs out of patience for your excuses to avoid sexual contact during outbreaks? Worse:  What happens if your partner has an outbreak?  I can just see someone I love accusing me of cheating on them. My options would be to play dumb and LIE MY ASS OFF or admit that I'd been lying to them about it the whole time?  That's a great way to ruin a relationship and end up alone anyway.   

I know fear of rejection is a huge obstacle... Especially for those of us who don't have the best self confidence.  As you know, the reality of HSV isn't THAT disruptive to life, but the stigma attached to it is "dirty". I do not live in a small community like you, but the more I opened up to friends about my diagnosis, I find a surprising number of people respond with, "Oh, I have it, too."  Reading the statistics, MOST people have it and they don't even know it. 

I've only disclosed a few times because I don't date much. Sometimes it went well, and sometimes it didn't. One person that rejected me was someone I'd already been sleeping with off and on for a few years. Actually, I had my first outbreak while I was exclusively sleeping with this man, but I wasn't diagnosed until a year later (denial.) When I did get diagnosed, I told him about it even though I had another boyfriend at the time... because he was my # 1 suspect regarding where I'd gotten it from. He claimed to be clean. When I wanted to reconnect with him later, he claimed to be terrified of getting herpes from me. I pointed out that we'd slept together off and on for years and he was still testing negative. Also the boyfriend of 3 years I had after him never contracted it either. Clearly, I would do what I could to protect him. He eventually gave in but after we were together he had this "herpes scare" (turned out negative) but he won't engage with me again. He's too scared. It still hurts me because I had lots of the feels for him, but... his loss (because I am awesome.)

The other couple men that I disclosed to... DID. NOT. CARE. They slept with me anyway.   It's been like a year now since I've tried to date, but its more because of my young child taking up all my time and not because I'm afraid to disclose. 

I'll leave you with this thought. You said if you had known that 22 year old had herpes you probably wouldn't have slept with her. I get it. I probably wouldn't have slept with whoever gave it to me had I known. So with that in mind.... how can you even consider doing the same thing to someone else?   Give them the choice.   I know you are afraid of being lonely, but wouldn't you rather someone be with you because they actually love you for ALL of your flaws and not just because you lied? You don't have to tell EVERYONE.  Just the ones you actually end up liking enough to sleep with. And so what if they spread rumors?  You could just deny them. At least in this case, your lie won't put another person's health at risk. Pretend you told them you had herpes just to get rid of them.  Or, you could just own it. "That's right. I'm a morally responsible person who discloses." 

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Winging it. I appreciate the reply. As well as anyone else who will care to share. I enjoy people taking the timne to help me with it. 

The unfortunate part is there are only maybe 100 available women my age to date in about an hour and half vicinity. You can take that down to about 35 of people that you may actually connect to. Those women usually have been married and are just now divorced or separated from the partner they have had for a very long time. Most of them have been married since high school or right after, and have kids. 

There wasn't a lot of options before herpes, so when you put that on the table it really really destroys the options you have of available partners. 

4 people know besides me. My family and one girl who I met in St. Louis who had it and I disclosed to her. 

Other then that, I do not take medication and honestly I do not have outbreaks. Very rare, I know I might be the unusual one that does. 

I have pictured lieing my ass off. I have put myself in my shoes from when it happened to me. I have been single and not in a long term relationship for the last 4 years because of it. I cant keep living like that. I may never have kids or marriage but I cant even not give myself a shot. 

I have been the honest one in relationships if I thought they wouldnt accept me based on just preliminary talks about STDs I would find a way to end it. 
 

I am going to try it this way for awhile. Are their people on this forum who have done the non-disclosure route? I know every thread says to disclose and I totally get the backing. Have their been people that have done this and maintained relationships or lied to their significant other or just to people in relationships in general? If we are a big believer in statistics surely someone other than me attempted this route. 

I appreciate the ongoing dialogue everyone thank you.

 

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I would not have to be honest, I just got way unlucky and he was shedding when were together. We used condoms at all times. My luck just sucks. If he had been on on anti virals this prob would not have happened. But he did not disclose and here I am. The chance of slim and I got it. 

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I don't think it's necessarily "horrible" to disclose.

In my experience, the fear is the worst part. Looking back, I allowed the fear to say I was unworthy and it eroded my self-esteem, which in turn eroded my ability to talk normally and maturely about it. The sooner you tell, the easier. Because I've lived the opposite route multiple times. As more time goes by, the more it feels like I was being dishonest, even though we hadn't even had sex yet. I too struggled with when was the too soon ("Hi, My name is _____, and I have genital herpes." versus too late (Uh oh, he's got his hand down my pants). I read an article recently where someone tells them after the second date has gone well and it's obvious there will be a third. I've just decided that's my plan of attack for the future.

I have also recently gone the route of not disclosing, while I *knew* I had it, to a good man I was starting to fall in love with.  I think in my mind I tried to deny the reality of what I was doing to avoid the embarrassment and awkwardness. But the reality of what I did, when I knew I had to tell him, and after I did finally tell him, was the WORST.  Dishonesty is never a good thing, as tempting as it can seem. I have more shame now in having potentially exposed a totally innocent man and making his life unnecessarily more difficult than it already has been for him. 

I'm here to warn people not to make the same mistake I have made. 

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On 10/12/2018 at 3:25 PM, Unlucky11 said:

Are their people on this forum who have done the non-disclosure route? I know every thread says to disclose and I totally get the backing. Have their been people that have done this and maintained relationships or lied to their significant other or just to people in relationships in general? If we are a big believer in statistics surely someone other than me attempted this route. 

 

 

I can assure you there are a lot of people here (myself included) who were on the other side of the non-disclosure. I have been in a relationship where my (now ex-) husband lied to me and didn't tell me that he had herpes, and I have no outbreaks. And I just found out less than a week ago that I have it. I have had it for over 10 YEARS, and I never knew. I had my right to informed consent taken away from me. And I can promise you, if I was still with my husband when I found out, I wouldn't be after. 

Not disclosing to someone is not something that is forgivable in my book.

And, I personally find it morally reprehensible that you would even consider putting someone at risk because you are being selfish and don't want to be alone. Does it suck to have herpes? YES. Will you get rejected? Most assuredly by some. I was rejected by the man I was seeing. It SUCKED. I could see the potential for a future with this man. BUT, I could not put him at risk...that's a sure fire way to lose someone..and this is not a decision that is solely yours to make. I don't care if your dating pool consists of 3 people. Those people have the right to know what potential risks they are taking. Even if you have no outbreaks. Even if you're on antivirals. Even if you use protection...there is still a risk. And where there is risk, there MUST be choice.

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I want to add to this conversation that I don't agree with people being so hard and judgemental towards someone who struggles with disclosure or who has already committed non-disclosure, but is struggling with coming clean. 

I understand the moral/ethical argument against non-disclosure, but I am not going to knee-jerk dismiss those who still struggle.  I think the overly hard dismissal can prematurely alienate these people.  I believe that is just compounding the shame and embarrassment they're likely struggling with already. This forum should be a place to safely voice concerns, thoughts, and experiences, without too much judgement and without fear of being judged. These people are often looking for support and guidance. I also believe that giving them space and listening and fairly presenting the possible alternatives is a more effective approach at changing their minds.

Lead by example - not by judgement.

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Hi Unlucky11

If your that bothered about your town & no secrets, maybe it is worth a move!
I know your business is there but can you not start again somewhere new?

If your loneliness is that important & you do not believe you can date & disclose where you currently live,
then I would say, it is seriously worth the move.

Give it a go in your town first, you never know, you may get a nice surprise.

Good luck

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Please know that I was not trying to be judgmental in my comment. I was just sharing my feelings on the topic. Disclosure is something we ALL have/are struggling with. I've thought about it a lot as I have friends that disclose and friends that don't and have seen this from several sides. I have chosen to disclose. Sometimes it goes well and sometimes it does not. I'd just personally rather not have that guilt on my conscience. 

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On 10/16/2018 at 12:01 AM, My_dog_is_hungry said:

@bird this forum is about living with herpes, not denying you have it. Actively choosing to expose someone to illness without their consent is not fair.

We are not trying to judge, we are trying to inform.

I understand the living with Herpes. I think @My Dog is Hungry raises a good point. However I think being able to deny that you have it is how some people have to cope. I have had maybe 2 outbreaks in four years. The mental side of the disease is far worse than anything I deal with physically. It works best when I do not think or act like I am any different than anyone else. 

The town I live in would alter their entire perception of me based on that information. Unfortunately I can not move. 

For many people on here they have felt the other side of non disclosure similar to what 100918 was saying. I wouldn't be with my husband if I had known that he lied about disclosure. 

My issue is the type of people that are on this forum are mainly individuals who have been lied to. Who received the disease from people who did not disclose. It indeed was hurtful and traumatic and that is why they looked for a forum such as this to figure out all the ins and outs, as well as to deal with the hurt. 

I think the people who deny it don't seek this kind of informed discussion or look for ways to deal with this in appropriate fashion. 

I am interested in myself right now. Doing what is best for me. That might not be the best way to get into a relationship but it is also the only way I think I can. I am being selfish, and I understand this. I am open about that here. I don't think a lot of people on the forum would respond the same, because I think a lot of people are looking to be open about their disease instead of having to hide it. I don't know if people on here will be as honest about hiding the disease from relationship partners or people in general because responses are so critical to the individual themselves for their decision not to disclose. 

 

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We would all love to hide our statuses..i don't think the majority of us want to live openly with it.. I hate all the arguments about why one side wants to disclose  (because THEY were lied to) and the other doesn't (because their scared, dating pool is small). There is right and there is wrong.  The line in the sand is clear. There is no justification for non disclosure.. to me it is an offense like rape.. and rape cases have been just like that - if they slept with you under the impression you knew you were clear of herpes and then were not. Do you want to be with someone that closed minded? As those in your town are? And from the other perspective,  you don't deserve a committed partner who prioritizes you after having risked this... I'm so disappointed that people consider not disclosing like this and take it this far like it's a game. It really shows a lack of maturity and social responsibility. I'm proud that most agree it is only right to disclose even though the government clearly doesn't care about this virus spreading all over the map. That tells me that the state of the world is kinda ok. People are doing the right thing when no one is babysitting them. This is serious,  move out of your city! Coming from a girl who moved from the Midwest to las Vegas.  Business is good here!

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Redfaith417.... Very passionate post. I disagree pretty strongly with comparison to rape. I don't think it is in the same context as that but that is my opinion. 

Moving isn't an option for me because I have developed my entire life here. I can not change that for the time being. In the future maybe the opportunity will present itself to move but for right now it is not possible. I think it may benefit others to give them the advice to move to a larger city, more accepting, but I feel there is a segment of the population just like me in small town America that can not move to Large cities. So in your situation it may work very well to disclose all of the time. I do not disagree with your stance but I think sex is an endeavor that requires risk as anyone on this forum knows. If I use a condom the percentage or chance of passing it to the partner is what.... below 4%. If you are on anti-virals and condom it is less than 1%. 

I may know the odds better than my partners or potential partner because of my situation, but it is still my situation. You engage in risk anytime you have sex. 

To shout down any type of opinion besides disclosure I believe is wrong. Or condemning them to that degree does allow for the open discourse of a topic. Then you just turn away from the forum all together and become someone who doesn't engage with other people who have Herpes for help with how they decide to cope with their situations in life. 

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On 10/11/2018 at 4:43 PM, Unlucky11 said:


I was lied to believed the lie. She wasn't concerned about my health and I am actually concerned about the other individual. 

 

 

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This is where I have such a big problem with what you're saying...you were lied to. You had someone who you feel was not concerned about your health. You claim to care about the other potential individual. But, yet you are intending to lie to that person, and no matter how small the risk, you are willing to risk their health.

I can guarantee you, if you still spread it to a partner, she will feel exactly as you do...that you lied, that you did not have concern for her health.

And if you think word might spread if you have an honest conversation with someone you're in a relationship with, where there is presumed trust, just imagine how word will spread if you give it to a woman without her consent to the risk. If it was me, and you gave it to me, no matter how careful you were....if you didn't give me the option of informed consent, I can promise you, I would warn the other girls after because clearly YOU would not be interested in disclosing to them. I think you do not give these women in your dating pool enough credit. If a man disclosed to me as a matter of intimacy, that information is private. If a man gives me an infection/disease because he was a coward and chose to put me at risk, then I would not feel confident that you would disclose to anyone else.

I know I may be coming across as judging and harsh...and actually, I AM judging what you intend to do. And I hope it's harsh. Because what you intend to do is just plain WRONG. There is no justifying it. Just because you were wronged does not make it okay for you to do the same to someone else. If you can't be grown up, then don't have sex.

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You are hell bent on justifying it. My post is not irrational or condemning you to any degree beyond reason, forcing people like yourself out of forms or anything like that. It is reality. To match your own attitude of 'you pay to play', engaging in sex is your own fault if you catch something from someone who knew but didn't give you the choice, if you want to post about not disclosing on a living with h forum - expect that you're going to be met with 95%+ chance of people trying to get you to see as it really is. It is not fair. It is not fair that we contracted herpes... the stigma isn't fair... having to disclose it for a number of reasons is not fair... but it's still the right thing to do.  Between 2 people it's the right thing to do,  between a group on a forum it's the right thing to do. Sorry there is no other way to chop it. You want to do what's best for you... but the thing about relationships is.. they aren't about you.. they aren't for you to just fit inside your life, your rules, your ideals.. it's an entire other being that you will try to melt your life with. I wouldn't want to be with someone who couldn't be more mature about something so minor (in the context of herpes vs. Your entire life,  80+ years it's minor). Can't you simply date until she's in love with you? At that point,  I'd probably fall more in love with you if I knew... and if I didn't and I found out by other means,  I'd leave you... because to me, it's probably a sign of greater betrayals to come.. to your credit,  I know very well how small town people think. It's unfortunate you aren't seeing an opportunity to be better than that. I'm not concerned though, it will all come out in the wash. It will unfold naturally however it will. You aren't right, but that doesn't mean your idea couldn't work out well.. so good luck. I am not your judge, you know? 

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On 10/25/2018 at 10:28 PM, 100918 said:

nd if you think word might spread if you have an honest conversation with someone you're in a relationship with, where there is presumed trust, just imagine how word will spread if you give it to a woman without her consent to the risk. If it was me, and you gave it to me, no matter how careful you were....if you didn't give me the option of informed consent, I can promise you, I would warn the other girls after because clearly YOU would not be interested in disclosing to them. I think you do not give these women in your dating pool enough credit. If a man disclosed to me as a matter of

For me I guess the town is the big reason. It is the allowing one person to know. Multiple people will then know and no one will guard that. It will spread throughout the area. The reason I know is because people in this area have disclosed. And then it becomes known. Even if it is a rumor than before you start dating they ask you about it. 

With both of your points I would like to refer to you to experience's I've watched. 

At a bar a man is talking to a woman. Now I know the woman but the guy was an out of towner and they were on probably one of their first dates.  While she gets up to go bathroom, a person and I can not be certain if he knew the guy or not walks up and tells him "You know she has herpes don't you. You don't have to believe me just ask her." The guy does and she starts crying he walks out. Now you can say this is her not disclosing but I looked at it as she did not get to pick the place or time or moment she got to relay the information. 

I have watched it happen three or four times just like that. People walk up to other people they know and say "Hey man shes got something, or that person has Herpes." While they are just trying to engage people in the normal awkwardness that comes with trying to find a person at a bar that has mutual attraction. Dancing, kissing, that type of thing. 

Now both of you presumably live in areas different than mine. But imagine going into the grocery store, church, public events, and people enjoy telling other people about your herpes? That is what they do in this area. And it is not everyone but it's enough people that enjoy the small town gossip where they feel they are there own personal TMZ. 

You lose the ability to deal with this on your own terms FOREVER, with one person knowing. 

Move out of that town. I hear that a lot from people. I can not. I have a family run operation that I came back too after my brother developed addiction issues and could not handle it. I lived in a big city and it is a lot easier to blend in there than it is here with disclosing or coming clean. 

I do appreciate both of your input, and your willingness to help me with my issues with your perspective. And no matter how we feel I enjoy airing out differences. I have gotten a lot of feedback from people that appreciate that they can read about non disclosure. Handling it in a private way. 

There are things in my life that brought me to this point. I am sure both of you dealt with the trauma of learning about your initial infection and/or depression from it? I am sure both of you have found a way that works best and are sharing that perspective with others. 

I am doing what is best for me in the current situation. Loneliness is a byproduct of what I am faced with in my situation. I am grateful that I have a place that I can air these worries, concerns, ideas out. And understand that you do not agree with my choices. However you may change the way I feel over time. Or you may not. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Unlucky11 said:

For me I guess the town is the big reason. It is the allowing one person to know. Multiple people will then know and no one will guard that. It will spread throughout the area. The reason I know is because people in this area have disclosed. And then it becomes known. Even if it is a rumor than before you start dating they ask you about it. 

 

Now both of you presumably live in areas different than mine. But imagine going into the grocery store, church, public events, and people enjoy telling other people about your herpes? That is what they do in this area. And it is not everyone but it's enough people that enjoy the small town gossip where they feel they are there own personal TMZ. 

You lose the ability to deal with this on your own terms FOREVER, with one person knowing. 

Move out of that town. I hear that a lot from people. I can not. I have a family run operation that I came back too after my brother developed addiction issues and could not handle it. I lived in a big city and it is a lot easier to blend in there than it is here with disclosing or coming clean. 

 

 

Yes, you presume. I used to live in a town that had exactly zero stop lights, no mail boxes because there was no one to deliver mail, so everyone had to go to the post office to get their mail, one grocery store, NO churches, NO alcohol/bars, no school and one gas station that sold the only pizza in town. Lived in another small town that had one stoplight, one grocery store, at least 2 or 3 bars, one gas station, a couple of churches, an old high school that had shut down (and its highest graduating class had 13 whole people in it) and one place to get your hair cut. Both surrounded by nothing but corn and soybeans.

So, yes, I GET the small-town mentality. However, it still does not give you the right to NOT disclose. I'm not saying you have to disclose on the first, second, or even tenth date. But, if you intend to let your penis out of your pants, you need to disclose first. And if you don't think you can trust that person to NOT go blabbing about town, then perhaps you should also reconsider if you want a relationship with her at all. THAT should be your litmus test. "Do I think I can trust this person to keep my confidence?" If the answer is no, then that's not the person for you anyway.

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  • 1 month later...

Sooo it sounds like you are more worried about your potential partner blabbering to the whole town. If you can’t trust her enough to keep this secret why would you want to be intimate with her? You also pointed out that other people in the town have it, so more than likely she will know someone this affects and possibly be more sympathetic. I would 100% disclose and let her make up her own mind. You said you haven’t had an outbreak in awhile and you also don’t take anti-vitals which is 100% your decision. However, the person I got it from didn’t know he had it so he obviously wasn’t on antivirals and he wore a condom and I still became infected. If you truly care about this woman then you would be honest from the get go. If you don’t disclose I think you would be starting this relationship out the wrong way. Plus how do you know she doesn’t have it? Personally I have only disclosed to a few friends and my mom no potential partners. But I also became infected back in May so I haven’t lived with it that long so I don’t know what disclosure is like. All of those people were supportive and do not treat me any differently. In fact my mom gets type 1 on her lip and another friend knows four people who have also told her just this year. It is so common and you shouldn’t have to hide it from someone you want to be intimate with. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/14/2018 at 1:53 AM, bird said:

I don't think it's necessarily "horrible" to disclose.

In my experience, the fear is the worst part. Looking back, I allowed the fear to say I was unworthy and it eroded my self-esteem, which in turn eroded my ability to talk normally and maturely about it. The sooner you tell, the easier. Because I've lived the opposite route multiple times. As more time goes by, the more it feels like I was being dishonest, even though we hadn't even had sex yet. I too struggled with when was the too soon ("Hi, My name is _____, and I have genital herpes." versus too late (Uh oh, he's got his hand down my pants). I read an article recently where someone tells them after the second date has gone well and it's obvious there will be a third. I've just decided that's my plan of attack for the future.

I have also recently gone the route of not disclosing, while I *knew* I had it, to a good man I was starting to fall in love with.  I think in my mind I tried to deny the reality of what I was doing to avoid the embarrassment and awkwardness. But the reality of what I did, when I knew I had to tell him, and after I did finally tell him, was the WORST.  Dishonesty is never a good thing, as tempting as it can seem. I have more shame now in having potentially exposed a totally innocent man and making his life unnecessarily more difficult than it already has been for him. 

I'm here to warn people not to make the same mistake I have made. 

How did it turn out for you? Did this man test? 

 

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