Ishmael
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Posts posted by Ishmael
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33 minutes ago, New2GH said:
@Ishmael, you know that it's not just unethical to me. IT'S UNETHICAL PERIOD! I would ask anyone else who is reading this to chime in but this is not my thread.
You are advocating for non-disclosure (within a certain context) on this forum. Don't you think it's a slap in the face to other users here that were on the receiving end of non-disclosure within that context?? Really?? I guess you are saying that they should have known better?
Ramble away if you must but, as I mentioned previously, I'm not taking anything that you have to say to heart.
"Hey, I'm neither listening to what you're saying or willing to, but please answer some more of my questions even though I've completely disregarded answering any of yours."
Cool. When you manage to pull yourself together, feel free to address this: "Question: Should people that haven't been tested (read: the vast majority) disclose that they likely have HSV-1? Why not? Aren't they putting their partners at risk? Sure it's slightly less a risk, but you should always disclose if you're at risk of giving your partners HSV-1 right?"
If you're so worried about my opinion on rainygirl's particular circumstance, you should feel inclined to try and change my opinion in a reasonable manner.
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Here is an earlier thread on this topic that you might find helpful:
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34 minutes ago, Ishmael said:
I should clarify that it's not a matter of oral or genital to me, so I shouldn't have specified genitals. If you get cold sores, you should disclose. I hear you about the stigma associated with genital herpes being BS, and I'm sorry if I perpetuated that here. If anything, genital HSV1 is harder to pass on than oral HSV1. In this case, she has no symptoms, either orally or on her genitals, which puts her on par with the 80% of the population that has it.
Also, anyone (like me) who has HSV-2 should disclose, symptoms or no.
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7 hours ago, New2GH said:
Hi @RainyGal, maybe you can find this sheet useful in regards to transmission. I hope all is well.
Rainygirl, you should definitely ignore this chart. The transmission rates in the pie charts refer to studies that are geared toward genital HSV-2 transmission. If you are symptomless for HSV-1 and gave this infographic to your partner, you'd basically be giving them a bunch of misinformation along with the couple of statistics in the block text that do refer directly to HSV-1. Genital HSV-1 and genital hsv-2 do not present, shed, or transmit in a similar fashion, and only one stat on this entire chart refers to that.
This is a good resource for people with genital HSV-2, and even then people should be aware that the 10% number is gleaned from studies where the couples in question have typically been together already for years, meaning that there are likely factors that are contributing to the low rate of 10% without condoms or antivirals. Most people that catch HSV-2 from their partners do so within the first few months of the relationship.
Bottom line: The rate of genital to genital hsv-1 transmission to either the genitals or orally are not reflected in this chart, and it's likely not going to your partner relevant information. You need to be very cautious about getting information from people (including me!) on internet forums. You would be better served by talking about HSV-1 with a healthcare professional. -
8 hours ago, New2GH said:
You have been caught red-handed and you are just trying your best to save face here. You could man up and admit that you did suggest to another user on this site (RainyGal, link to that post provided in this thread) that you would NOT disclose and instead carry on like normal if you were in her shoes (positive only for HSV 1 through blood test and never any sores anywhere). It's as clear as daylight in your response to her. Slice it any way you want.
In my book this is something that is UNETHICAL and therefore leads me to question the ethics of the person who would suggest non-disclosure in this context, or any other context for that matter. She cannot know for sure if her infection is oral or genital and she is contagious either way because of viral shedding. Your response was the only response to RainyGal's thread and she may have decided to take what you said you would do in her case and run with it, putting others at risk. Could her next partner be one of the 20% that doesn't have HSV 1? Absolutely! Doesn't that 20% deserve a voice here? Heck, even if 99% had HSV 1 I would still advocate that the remaining 1% should still have a say. But maybe that's just me.
ANYHOW, moving forward the whole reason I brought all this up was to convey to @benzgtx (and really anyone else for that matter) to not take to heart any advice or criticism that is coming from someone whose ethics are in question. I know I wouldn't!
@benzgtxI'm sorry that your thread was hijacked. It most certainly was not my intention. But for what it's worth you are getting a lot of views!
I've made my position pretty clear. I certainly would carry on like normal if I was in Rainygirls shoes and nothing I've said here suggests otherwise. If that is UNETHICAL (lol) to you, I'm fine with that.
As for her next sex partner being at risk, her next sex partner should assume that she likely has HSV-1. It's the same thing that they should assume when they sleep with anyone. If this is a disqualifier for him (or her) and they want to avoid having sex with someone who has the HSV 1 virus, then they should ask if she has it and/or ask that they both get tested beforehand. At that point, she should disclose.
Question: Should people that haven't been tested (read: the vast majority) disclose that they likely have HSV-!? Why not? Aren't they putting their partners at risk? Sure it's slightly less a risk, but you should always disclose if you're at risk of giving your partners HSV-1 right?
It sounds to me like you are having some trouble coming to terms with your own accountability for your HSV. -
1 hour ago, 22&Depressed said:
So only if she has a reason to believe it’s genital she should disclose? Isn’t that the double standard and stigma we’re trying to eliminate? Especially given the fact that it recurs more/sheds more/is more likely to transmit from the oral location?
This is the problem. No one thinks anyone who has HSV1 is obliged to disclose when they are the ones spreading it to genitals. The logic in this is absurd. And what you said above perpetuates it.
Im not attacking you at all I’m just pointing out that this is the very issue in society that makes those who have (really) the better combo of HSV1 and it’s location feel worse about themselves. I had a tough time coming to terms with disclosing my HSV location but now that I have because I want to, others who do have GHSV1 shouldn’t feel that they have to disclose their same virus just because it’s on their genitals - EVERYONE should disclose.
@RainyGal if you’ve never had an OB but test positive for it, I wouldn’t disclose. Unless you want to. In which case it could be something something done in passing.
I should clarify that it's not a matter of oral or genital to me, so I shouldn't have specified genitals. If you get cold sores, you should disclose. I hear you about the stigma associated with genital herpes being BS, and I'm sorry if I perpetuated that here. If anything, genital HSV1 is harder to pass on than oral HSV1. In this case, she has no symptoms, either orally or on her genitals, which puts her on par with the 80% of the population that has it.
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4 hours ago, Lelianney said:
I have had Herpes for 28 years.
I was infected by a sexual assault when I was a teenager. I did not have very many outbreaks after my first horrendous one until my late 30's and I went into early menopause. I had an outbreak every month, even with medication. This has stopped now for 2 years as I have been on HRT, and it was like it just went. Just completely went.
Until a few days ago. I felt like I was getting the flu, I couldn't navigate the supermarket, my vision was odd, my legs hurt. I was.. itchy.. all over. I had to stay in bed, and it didn't click until this morning when I had such swollen lymph nodes in the groin I couldn't walk properly. Then came the blisters, the shooting pains in my legs. And then shame. All the fucking shame. And the lie that you only get these symptoms the first time is just that, a lie. It is dreadful.
I only joined this forum to vent my black rage at getting this infection. It's not fair, I didn't choose it, I didn't even have fun getting it. I hate the reminder, I hate the pain, I hate that I am losing 2 days of work because this virus has come back with all it's black, shitty, painful symptoms. I feel so rageful and tearful tonight I just want to scream. And cry.
I have no words of hope, none. It's a terrible disease, and I hate it.
Sorry to hear about your situation; that sounds pretty horrific. Have you spoken to a doctor since this most recent outbreak? I wonder if it could be connected to something like an infection that is weakening your immune system that is suddenly making you vulnerable to the virus again. If so, maybe there is something that they can do about it. After reading your post, I just read about early menopause, and it says ("it" being my two second hasty google search) that one of the potential causes of early menopause is autoimmune dysfunction, which might also be a root cause of your HSV resurgence. Do you have access to medical professionals who can give you any insight or way forward with this situation?
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1 hour ago, New2GH said:
@Ishmael, so then people that don't get cold sores don't have to tell their partners even if they know they are infected with type one via blood test?? A yes or no will suffice.
I specifically mention a scenario above where someone should still divulge in that instance. As for a yes or no,if I thought it was that simple, I'd answer that way. If that means you think I'm equivocating, I'm fine with that.
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47 minutes ago, Ensolarada22 said:
Yes, I am sure. I specifically asked for the herpes test before when I got the negative result. In fact, I get a lot of ingrown hairs and I've been swabbed multiple times with negative results because they basically do the herpes swab if there are ever any bumps down there. I get the full STI screening that I know doesn't include herpes every year, in fact, I had just had my yearly exam and testing 3 weeks before this, but that one did not include herpes.
Yeah, it sounds like you know then. It sounds like things went well either way.
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8 minutes ago, Ensolarada22 said:
Hi Amando,
Thank you! Well, I'm glad I sound reasonable, I might classify it more as...mercurial...one minute I'm sobbing, the next minute I know it's going to be fine, and the next I'm calling myself a sexual leper, etc... but at the end of the day, there's nothing I can do at this point but accept it and let it go. Based on what I've read so far on this forum it seems like everyone's experience is very unique so I have to just wait and see how it will play out for me (how many/how severe/how often will my outbreaks be), which is what feels the scariest to me right now. It would be easier if someone could just tell me how it's going to be (I've always struggled in situations that I can't control).
Thank you so much for your advice. That's exactly what I did last night. I actually told him to come over and we'd order dinner and watch a game. I'm not sure I could have asked for a better experience honestly. I just said I have to tell you something and he said 'are you pregnant?' and I said 'oh god no'. Then I just said it straight out, and yes his eyes got really wide and I thought he was going to have a heart attack for about a couple minutes. I said, do you want to ask me questions? Do you want me to explain more? He said, give me just a second to process, then he looked over at me and said, ok, now let's talk this through cause I admit I'm not really knowledgeable about it. We sat and talked and read stuff and he even said...so...I could have given it to you. I said sure, that's a possibility. At the end he said, "so, it's kinda like sexual chicken pox that can just come back and people must just freak out about it because it's transferred through sexual contact I guess."
I actually feel so much better about everything today. I am not good at lying so it was stressing me out to keep acting like everything was fine knowing I needed to tell him. And his reaction was kind of reassuring that not everyone will run away from me.
Thank you so much for your response.
Hi fives to both you and this dude.
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22 hours ago, Ensolarada22 said:
I have only had one partner in the last month or so and I actually had taken a year off from sex prior to starting this relationship (due to a bad relationship). I know for sure I was negative 18 months ago, because I was tested at the end of my bad relationship cause he was a cheating loser.
Are you sure you were tested? A lot of people think they are tested because they ask for STI tests, but it's actually not usually included.
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Also, I think anyone who has never been tested, meaning most people, should assume that they probably have HSV-1.
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10 hours ago, New2GH said:
@Ishmael, So the message you are conveying is that it's okay for someone who has oral HSV1 to not disclose since it's common in the population?
Not at all. I think people who get cold sores should tell their partners.
I also think that if you meet someone and have sex with them, in lieu of them getting an HSV blood test immediately before you have sex, that you should assume that the person you are having sex with likely has HSV-1 and that it could be either oral or genital. I think you should also assume that they have no idea whether or not they have it. Because that's the reality. If that bothers you, then you should ask them to get tested beforehand.
HSV-1 isn't merely common. A disease that affects 1% of the population could be described as "common". Asymptomatic HSV-1 is something the overwhelming majority of people have and it strikes me as a strange disqualifier when choosing sexual partners. But if it is a disqualifier for you, the onus is on you to ask and to ask for tests. As it happens, the medical community does not promote the idea of testing for HSV-1 without symptoms, in part because of the reasons I've stated. -
20 minutes ago, Ishmael said:
My reply there was specifically about a scenario where you are HSV1 and have no reason to believe you have it on your genitals.
Or even get cold sores anywhere.
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40 minutes ago, New2GH said:
As we know, a positive blood test for type one only tells us we have it but not where we have it. And as we also know it is becoming more and more common to have type one genitally. So there is no way to know for sure without sores and only a positive blood test for type one. If I didn't already know I had it genitally, I would disclose that I have it and that it could be oral or genital. I would want to protect the other 20 per cent that don't have it.
Just so we're clear, I have HSV2 and always disclose and always will. I certainly don't think anyone who knows they have genital herpes should not disclose. My reply there was specifically about a scenario where you are HSV1 and have no reason to believe you have it on your genitals.
HSV1, if you don't know where it is, is something the vast majority also have and don't know about, hence everyone that has sex with anyone should automatically assume that their potential partner likely has HSV1 already, because they likely do have HSV1 already. Anyone that has never been tested for HSV1, which is the vast majority of people, should also assume that they likely have it already, because they likely do. So should everyone disclose to everyone that they probably have HSV1? It must be troubling to live in a world where the vast majority engage in unethical sexual practices.In the event that they have been tested, and they want to avoid it by limiting their dating pool to the 1 in 5 people that don't have HSV1, then they can ask their partners or make a point of getting their partners get tested beforehand. Having sex with a random person and then being upset that it turns out that they have HSV1 would be completely ludicrous. Of course they probably had HSV1.
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2 minutes ago, New2GH said:
Geez mister, you really ruffled some feathers with this post! But as someone who also has HSV-related neurological issues, I can totally understand your frustration and need to vent. Sometimes forums like these are the only places we are left with to do so. Honestly, I scared most people in my personal life away (longtime friends, close family) when I tried to reach out and tell them what I've been going through. It's sad, but most people are just not interested in dealing with such raw and real emotions, or dealing with anyone who is in the dumps. It's a buzz kill, it gets in the way of a good time. So it's no surprise you got some backlash.
Basically people just want to conveniently water herpes down to just a "skin condition" and don't care to hear about the darker side of herpes since most people won't be as unfortunate as we both are to, not only live with the stigma, but live with HSV-related health issues as well. Perhaps sharing atypical HSV experiences scares most HSV folks unnecessarily, BUT I think it also helps them to put things into perspective (that at least they don't have the issues that we have in addition to the usual things that come with being diagnosed with HSV). I know that if I didn't have atypical symptoms I would have looked at your story in that way and been very thankful that HSV wasn't causing me so much trouble. Also, I'm sure that down the road some other poor soul who's been atypically impacted by HSV might find your thread and reach out and you can help them out through their difficult time. It is bound to happen and to me that would make your post worth it even if you aren't "offering" anything at the moment.
But either way, it's clear that people want things to be kept light and fluffy in here. It's okay though, I'm here for you even if you come across as pessimistic because I understand where you are coming from. Feel free to private message me anytime, heck I"ll even give you my number if you ever want to talk. I'm here for you and for what it is worth I hope that somehow, someway your condition improves so you can get back to a normal life. That's all that I want for myself as well.
PS.. As for you being called out for being pessimistic or negative just beware that some of these same people that are pointing the finger are downright condoning or partaking in non-disclosure, so I question their ethics. I'm of the mindset that when someone points a finger at someone they are pointing three back at themselves. If I had to choose between an unethical or pessimistic person, I would go for the pessimistic person any day. But that's just me 🙂.
Who is advocating for non-disclosure? Certainly not me, and certainly not Adrial. That's a pretty significant accusation to make. Also, I have no problem with hearing about the darker side of herpes, or creating a forum that welcomes people who suffer from the effects of HSV to an atypical degree. When those people post at this forum, they are welcomed with open arms. The issue is not the extent to which the OP is suffering, but rather his invitation to comprehend HSV users as existing in a shared "hell" and to misrepresent what the symptoms of this disease actually are under the guise that he is being objective and scientific. He has neurological problems, sure. By his own admission, every medical professional he has talked to has told him that these problems are not caused by herpes, but he asserts that they are. Based on what? Based on the fact that he didn't have these issues back when he didn't have herpes. That's not scientific thinking. Neither is his idea that genital herpes causes neurological decay because of HSV-1's association with dementia. The idea that seeing the faults in his logic mean that I want to "water down" the effects of herpes or dismiss people that suffer from atypical effects doesn't carry water. Neither does the idea that potential partners can't make an informed choice about the risks. What his attitude does is unnecessarily amplify the damaging stigma that actually causes the most amount of suffering for the most amount of people. It's not like most people think herpes is just a skin condition. If most people thought that, then diagnosis wouldn't be so traumatic.
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Frankly, I also have to question your motivation here. You are coming to a forum where people, many of whom are newly diagnosed, come to seek solace and a new understanding about the traumatic diagnosis they have received. What is it that you are offering them?
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3 hours ago, benzgtx said:
Bottom line is life is too short to have herpes.
Actually, the bottom line is that the people at this website do have herpes. Having it or not having it is not an option. The idea that for a small minority of people this is an extremely physically difficult ailment doesn't make it more of a problem for the people that don't have neurological disorders as a result of their HSV infections. The fact, and it's a fact, remains that most people do not notice their HSV at all. Also, I'm not convinced that you are taking an objective or scientific approach. For instance, you suggest that HSV1 is a potential cause for dementia, which is true, but some 80% of the population have HSV1, so it's not something you can do a lot to avoid if you want to have a sex life. Most people here have genital herpes and their virus hangs out at the base of their spines. HSV2 has not been connected to dementia. Also, there is already pretty good evidence that suggests how we might use antivrials to mitigate the this risk: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07/180712100515.htm
When the authors looked at subjects who suffered severe herpes infection and who were treated aggressively with antiviral drugs, the relative risk of dementia was reduced by a factor of 10.
Why do you think you ignored this fact when relaying this information to the board? I think it has to do with a desire not only to be pessimistic, but to spread that pessimism.
You have also decided, despite your claim that you are rigorously scientific, to attribute all of your neurological ailments to the HSV virus, even when medical professionals have told you that there are likely alternative causes. The fact is, there could be alternative causes, but you've already made up your mind and will simply dismiss their opinions.
As for it being an opportunity, it's an opportunity in so far as anything that challenges you in a negative way is an opportunity to adapt to meet that challenge. That doesn't mean anyone has to be happy they have it, it's a way of talking about how we cope with the disease. I don't see you offering anything in terms of how to cope with the disease, except giving into despair.
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1 hour ago, Tinkerbellla said:
The thing is it’s been constant every day for nearly 7 months.. surely that’s not normal?
No it isn't normal, and having a swab test on it coming back negative suggests it might not be herpes as well. Did you get a full STI panel? Check for other infections or just herpes?
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This guy is scum.
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Are there any dietary changes that you've made? Can you think of anything that could be affecting your immune system? Have you cut out nuts, chocolate and coffee? What about alcohol? Have you had a blood test to check your immune system? Have you recently gone through menopause?
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4 hours ago, Concernednconfused said:
Thank y’all but like even with a condom they can get it and asymptotic shedding and you never know when that is so when do you know if it’s even safe and with me just finding out shouldn’t I be trying to figure out how my body reacts to the virus. Like some doctors say once you’ve had th initial break out usually people don’t break out again but I’m just so scared and don’t want to expose them to it. I stay in my head constantly and feel so dirty and fragile like one wrong thing is said and I cry all day... I think maybe we will one day get comfortable enough to have sex together but we just really got to know each other we gotta see if it’s worth exposing them to it. And I’ve got to see how my body reacts with it.... I’m just scared that if I lose them I’m not going to find anyone else who accepts me with everything I come with
What you are feeling is very normal, and something almost all of us who are diagnosed go through. The vast majority of us go on to find normal lives, fall in love, have babies if we want, and so forth. The lived reality of herpes vs. the stigma is a huge, massive difference. What you are in danger of doing, however, is telling yourself that it's this guy or nothing and over estimating what you "owe" him for continuing to date you. People that are newly diagnosed can think that it's either what they have or a life in a leper colony. Make rediscovering your self-worth a part of your journey and know that if he isn't interested because of the 1% chance he'll get this disease then he's not worth the anxiety. Plenty of other (more educated, more secure) guys will be happy to take his place.
Also, allow yourself an adjustment period where you come to terms with this diagnosis. Just because you're still wrought with anxiety in a few months doesn't mean you aren't going to feel better or that you aren't progressing. -
You can still have sex and fall in love and have babies. All that. Like, 20% of women have this. You think they all go live under a porch or something?
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Drink lots of water while on antivirals to keep them from getting clogged up in your kidneys.
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HSV1 - one blood test, no symptoms - disclosing?
in The herpes talk: disclosing
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@22&DepressedThis should read "I'm sorry THAT (not 'if') I perpetuated that here."