hippyherpy

I read about "Asymptomatic" and question whether or not this actually means 100% that you can't tell the virus is shedding, or if we are told that it is because most people don't check for the right thing or aren't aware of when they are shedding in between outbreaks. Does anyone know how they arrived at "Asymptomatic", and how accurate that phrase is? Perhaps that term was thrown out there because coming up with a generalized way of detecting when you are shedding was too difficult, like may different people can tell they are shedding differently, as precautionary way of letting people know that there are still times when it's contagious sans outbreaks. Also, could there be a way to tell if you are shedding- like some kind of home test or swipe you could do?

What about snuggling?

Anyone here ever try to drop a herpes joke with a potential partner?

I'd bet there is a cure that they are paying every year not to have released.

This could be a good thing to talk about when you first meet someone.. the concept of marketing could lead to talking about stigma, and then to other stigmas, and you could throw in herpes stigma info in that discussion. I'm guessing there's a 2.5% (heh) chance that anyone who doesn't have herpes will know how much of the stigma is due to marketing. I think part of the reason why disclosure can seem daunting is because you probably have to explain a lot of this.. and it can be a lot to just drop on someone. Maybe there's a way to test the waters with these kinds of talks.

This is part of what I had been looking for. No serious stigma until the 1980s: 1980’s In the USA, prescription drugs can be advertised directly to the public. The Burroughs Wellcome advertising campaign was designed to stimulate demand for Zovirax by raising patients’ concerns about the social consequences and implications of infection and emphasizing that the drug could reduce outbreaks and transmission. The campaign appears to have successfully created the stigma which has clung to genital herpes ever since. --- So all of here are living with the aftermath of a marketing decision.

Is herpes the most lucrative virus for the pharmaceutical industries?

Like what other viruses?

I'm curious to know about how herpes stigma has evolved. I've heard conflicting recollections and stories about how it's been perceived throughout the years, as well as differing explanations of the causes of varied perceptions on herpes. We can use this thread to discuss the history of herpes stigma. I was recently diagnosed, and I don't know too much about it yet, so maybe the senior members here can fill in some of it.

I hear what you are saying- my primary care physician said the same thing about not be infectious on outbreaks. The ID person I saw.. He's not just like a PC doctor. He specializes in infectious diseases. He's got many years of experience dealing with this stuff day in and day out. He had 5 interns sit in on our meeting while he was training them. He's an authority on STDs. Mentioned herpes.com as being one of the better sources on the web for info. Don't take this the wrong way because I don't know if you fit this category, but there are some people that would rather "hear" the bad side of everything (just like some people want to hear the good side). A lot of people want to feel like victims and will only accept info that backs up that position. I asked him about the history herpes stigma. He said it was actually worse before HIV, which came in and over-shadowed herpes. Thought that was interesting because I read somewhere that the stigma really started to kick in in the 1980s.

I have the handout. My doctor said 1% or less.

I also asked him about protein powder- which I've read is not good to take because of high arginine ratios, he said it wasn't a problem.

No, I asked him within the context of my infection and my partners, heterosexual male to female.

@adrial @wcsdancer2010 , for male to female is 4%, 1% is female to male.. Think you just mixed to two up... :-) @hippyherpy , he accidentally gave you the statistics for female to make transmission. It is 4% w condoms and meds for male to female transmission. @elise1977 well said! I love that you are finally coming around hippyherpy! Nothing is better than seeing someone grow from this! You were seriously scaring me there for awhile. Lol I have an audio recording of him saying 1% at two different parts in the conversation. I asked him about it saying I heard it was 2.5% with condoms and meds. He said 1% or less. He's the expert who is certified. That's what I'm going with.

If you make yourself as attractive as possible than the herpes will take on less importance.

Is not the being an Infectious Disease specialist being in the trenches. He told me the best research on herpes is coming out of Seattle and a lot has been done in Africa where they have a lot of genital ulcers. My point is that when I disclose, I can say less than 1% or almost 100% chance that they won't get it. This is a lot better than 1/40 chance. He agreed that you have to just tell the person that "I have herpes" I think that's ok. There needs to be a way to build into the conversation instead of just dropping a bomb.. like ramp up to the disclosure. Maybe try to get a better sense of what your partner knows about herpes before dropping "I have herpes" because so many people do not really understand what herpes is about.

^ If the risk is less than 1% then there's really no harm in disclosing and really no worry about getting people infected. Less than 1% is also the quote I got from the infectious disease specialist. I'm looking for silver lining with regards to herpes disclosure and being a guy doing casual sex.. So far it seems to be this: - Building more comfort/security with the person, despite the virus, because it is an honest thing to share. - Also, not trying to rush things can create more healthy sexual tension. If you are a guy and moving and escalating fast, then sometimes not giving it all away makes the girl more interested. So the woman has to pass some tests to get to hear the disclosure. - Having herpes alleviates any dread you might have had about getting herpes. Now that you've got it, you don't have to be afraid of getting it (if you were before). For most people it's not that bad. - The finding out you have herpes time period- when you get the tests etc. can often be a seemingly large life event that makes all the other stuff you were "worried" about seem petty. Don't sweat the small stuff and remember that life is short etc. Then you read up and find out that herpes isn't such and isolated big deal.. a lot of people have it and it's essentially cold sores on your dick (for most people). It's important for people to be in touch with the bigger perspective in life so that they don't get mired down in banalities.

Had a consultation and there was told some interesting things. Here they are: The ID doctor, someone who knows HSV for decades, told me that the risk of transmitting HSV if you are using daily Valtrex and condoms is less than 1%. This is lower than the 2.5% we talk about here. The specialist told me that the rates of passing genital HSV 2 to the mouth via oral sex is actually a lot larger than what we talk about here (1% cases) and suggested it was more like 20/80. Also said that if you use daily meds, it goes down to about 1% risk of transmission. Yes you are more infectious in the first year, but if you take Valtrex daily, that gets reduced greatly. So, the first year thing doesn't really matter if you are taking meds. I was also told that the Lysine/Argenine thing doesn't really have any basis in science, and that different people can tell what their triggers are. Sunlight is OK as long as it's not something like going sun bathing for six hours or whatever. There is less of risk of transmission from someone who has GHSV2 who is taking meds daily, and using condoms, than random sex with someone who doesn't know their status at all. It's very hard to get HSV 2 on your eyes from your hands if you touch your infected genitals.

Do you have to say "I have herpes" are there other ways to disclose it? "I have the virus that causes cold sores" or something like that?

If it makes anyone feel better- I got diagnosed with HSV 2 about a month ago, and told two of my current sex partners who were ok with it. One of them was even cool with having raw sex. I had sex with both of them (seperately) the other day. I'm on Valtrex and not having a breakout. 5% chance of transmission. If you can't afford healthcare, get medicaid and get a Valtrex prescription for supression. Sex is possible with HSV 2. There are a lot of people getting it nowadays and I found that three people I know have some form of HSV- two of them have genital (one has HSV 2 and I think the other has HSV 1) and the other has HSV 1 in her mouth.

Nobody is shoving anything down your throat here ;) Also, operative word was "maybe".. nobody is asking you to respond either. I'm trying to figure stuff out, and you are freaking out. I'm sure there are people on here who don't disclose or haven't disclosed. I don't know what you are getting at with regards to your bit about drinking and herpes- if you are insinuating that I'm having sex against people's consent, then maybe you are the one who needs to go to the therapist and stop being so hypersensitive.

I never said I've decided on not disclosing. That's why I started this thread. I'm on the fence about it. Well you seem to be doing your damndest to find any and every reason not to disclose.... I didn't know that HSV 1 has to be disclosed if it's genital. Again, this is OUR policy here.... I'm sure others have other opinions on that. But we consider that with something as intimate as sex, where someone is putting their TRUST in you, that they deserve CHOICE. My other point is- if herpes is as potentially bad as some in this thread are saying it can be (and nobody here has provided any stats on the frequency of how much it becomes so terrible), then why would you even let your partner take that risk at all? Sure it's their choice, but maybe they don't know how it will affect them down the line if they get it. There are no studies/stats .... and I know we mostly get the people who are suffering and not so many who are asymptomatic ... but I've seen enough to know that for the FEW who have rough time, it's not a lot of fun. BUT ... and this is the point that you are not getting.... if someone gets Herpes KNOWING that they put themselves at risk, then they accept it a LOT better. Just as people jump out of airplanes all the time with a MINUTE risk of parachute failure ... but the few who get hurt in the process generally accept that risk was part of the deal... and BTW, anyone who takes people up for those jumps... they DISCLOSE those risks in a consent form. So - what's the difference??? The reason I'm asking that, is because I think this discussion comes down to this: how bad is herpes? Depends on who you ask - and it's not for YOU to CHOOSE for them whether it's "bad" or not... If it's not so bad, then the stigma is bs. The stigma IS BS..... AAAAAAAAANNNNNNNDDDDD ..... YOU don't know how someone will react if they get it from you. But I can promise you one thing ... it's likely to be a LOT worse if they find out you didn't disclose to them ... both for you (they *could* take you to court in many states) and for them (the feeling of delusion, of betrayal, lack of trust, etc is HUGE in those who are infected by someone who chooses to not disclose) In the above example concerning the suicidal girl- is she contemplating suicide because of false stigma, or because of the actual condition that she's dealing with? Does it really matter? But usually it's the stigma talking .... but AGAIN, and I won't say this any more .... IT'S NOT UP TO YOU TO MAKE THAT CHOICE FOR HER CONCERNING THE RISK. SMH When people go out and have casual sex, they are assuming risks. There's a risk of getting HSV 1 just from kissing a stranger. That's one of the reasons why people use condoms in the first place. They don't know what the other person has. If they care so much about whether the person they are about to have sex with has herpes, then they should be held responsible to ask if it's up to us to disclose. If I've reduced their chance of getting it to 1/40, that's not nothing. Can you really say that is being reckless? The risk statistics of getting herpes are already out there for everyone to see. Anyone who is having casual sex is taking the same risk of getting herpes with someone who doesn't know their status as someone who does and is taking all the precautions, yet people who know they have herpes are the ones getting blamed. In fact, I read somewhere that they are actually less likely to get it from someone who knows that they have it for the reason that the person is being so cautious. Someone might haven chosen not to disclose with me. I take full responsibility for getting it. It was my choice to have sex with whoever it was. I think the airplane/parachute analogy isn't apt here because you can die if your parachute doesn't open, but you aren't going to die from herpes. Also, anyone who goes up in an airplane knows that it is risky- that's probably part of why they do it in the first place. I'm not saying that getting the thrill of the "danger" of getting an STD is why people have sex, but who doesn't know that there is a chance that that a parachute might not open up? Again- I'm playing devil's advocate with a lot of this and haven't decided yet on how I'm going to move forward. That's why I'm posting here. I want to understand more about this virus and it's stigma and how much it will have an effect on my life.

Not sure where you read that, because I've had this over a yr and researched it, even at the virology level and nowhere has it ever been said, you don't disclose gshv 1. If you've seen that, then please provide the resources for me to review. You say that that you haven't decided on disclosing, yet all's you've done is go to the extreme to argue against disclosing. I've never seen so much energy in all the forums I've been on, to argue why they shouldn't have to disclose and you putting the blame on people who fear how herpes can wreck havoc on some of us, was shocking and that's not even the word I want to use, but I agreed to follow the community guidelines, so I have to be careful w what I say . There was a guy on here several months ago who slept w a girl w ghsv 1 and he knew she had it and he used a condom and he still got it. He got it on his scrotum. Your behavior has been very combative and blaming others for everything and how we all should refrain from sex,except for you that is. I have a best friend that has an autoimmune disease that was diagnosed a few yrs ago, but she got herpes like 10 or more yrs ago and the virus causes no issue w her. Nobody can predict how ones body will react, so for you to point blame at those of us who have autoimmune disease's and especially the ones who didn't know they had any yet when they got H, was disrespectful and rude. HSV 1 and 2 only share 50% of their DNA and HSV 2 is more aggressive than HSV 1. And then there you go again, on the same arguments. You continue to project the view you have on herpes, now that it changes you sex life, onto other's and it not being that bad. That isn't up to you to decide if they feel it is bad! Nobody cares what you think of it! You are not god, you don't have that right to decide how bad it is going to be for another. You arent here to listen, learn and understand; you are here to be combative, justify your deplorable behavior and put the blame on others on why they have no business in having sex, if they fear how herpes will react to them. You do realize there are different strains of each simplex and some are drug resistant and some are more aggressive than others right? There's no telling what strain you have! There's no telling how ones immune system will react! Our immune syatems are as unique as our thumbprints and is the reason why there is no telling how one will react to H. There are people who don't have autoimmune issues, that still can't manage herpes. Outside of my intital oral herpes OB that was only inside my mouth, I never get cold sores and never have! I might get a red dot in the corner of my mouth and that's it! You'd think since my body handled that so well, that it'd handled HSV 2 well, but it didn't! So for you to carelessly say and very ignorantly the things you do, is nothing short of wreckless! You say:Well then, this is a tricky thing because even if you discuss it with them and even if they say yes, you could be introducing them to a lifetime of medical issues. But guess what!? She still disclosed and when I disclosed I said that all though I'm the exception, not the rule, it's still possible for it to be like this for you and he still accepted it. I gave him the choice. Stop finding every way to argue this, it is making you look souless and in a very bad light. Your arguments on how YOU deem it a bigger issue w stigma, rather than the actual virus is null and void! You don't get to decide that for a person. Whether it true or not, you are making yourself sound like a selfish, womanizing narcissist. Maybe you should do some serious self reflection. You yourself have already provided studies about asymptomatic shedding and the majority, if not all of those who got it, got it from someone during asymptomatic shedding, yet you're still trying to justify it. You really should go back and read this entire thread to see how you sound. I had to read it to my mother last night and I'll have to refrain from sharing her words but they weren't pleasant .. Appalled would be an understatement. Actually yes we do share the stats. There are disclosure pamphlets and a handout w the stats on there. If this isn't as bad as you think it is, then you should have no reason or problem w disclosing. I mean after all, you're pretty skilled at dismissing the stigma of the virus, why not apply that same passion in your personal life? What are these other complications you speak of outside of herpes that you keep bringing up, which actually isn't even relevant if it doesn't relate to herpes? You still haven't addressed my questions about taking home drunk girls for a third time for a hookup and I have a pretty good idea why you're not answering that. You are putting words in my mouth. I never said people with herpes shouldn't have sex. I asked questions about the ethics of having sex with herpes, regardless of disclosure. I'm still trying to figure things out with this. People go out and party. They drink. There's nothing wrong with having sex with someone who is intoxicated. It happens all the time. Maybe it isn't your lifestyle, but don't hate on other people if that's what they want to do.

Well then, this is a tricky thing because even if you discuss it with them and even if they say yes, you could be introducing them to a lifetime of medical issues. So let's say we are going to disclose- how much disclosure is ethical then? Should you tell them all the stats like we've talked about on this thread? Do you just let them know that you have it? I didn't know the details of this thing before I got it. I thought you could only transmit if there were sores present... "Yes the risk is very low if you takes meds and condoms, but if you get it, you got it for life, and it can have severe health complications even if you use meds etc." Isn't that essentially feeding the stigma? Also, there are types of complications that come from different things that aren't related to herpes at all.

It's not a black and white issue. It's a spectrum. For most people, they never even know they have it. Or their symptoms are so mild, they don't know what's going on or if they do it's not a big deal. For some people their system's take a while to settle, but it's generally a Shitty nuisance (I fall into this category). A small number of people have more serious issues. How many, Isn't really known for this category. What we do know from NHANES studies is that only about 20% of people who have hsv2 are symptomatic in a noticeable way. The problem is that there's no definite way to know where someone will be on the spectrum. I am pretty healthy gal. Barely ever got sick before this. Not even colds. I eat well, exercise, and limit drinking. BUT for some reason my immune system is struggling to get a handle on this. It's just a crap shoot. And I would have preferred to be able to make the choice about this gamble. My partner was asymptomatic and didn't know he had it. And thought he had been fully tested. You are certainly right that the stigma is bs. And that the way we treat hsv 1 & 2 differently is bs. But I don't think that changes our responsibility to be open with prospective partners. I agree that it is a shared responsibility, but just because someone didn't ask doesn't absolve me from my responsibility. I think it's really about just being a good person. Good luck with your decision. You say you didn't get sick much before HSV 2- are you saying that now that you have HSV 2, you are getting sick more often with things like colds etc?