Isn't it Odd

[Dave]

I find it odd that if a person has HSV-2 (with no outbreaks), they are expected to disclose this information to future partners. Yet I've never heard of anyone disclose that they have HSV-1 (with no outbreaks), before kissing someone. Could it be that most people don't realize something like 99% of cold sores is herpes? Yet genital herpes comes with shame, depression and the sense that no one will ever love you again. And no one knows you have it unless you tell them, while everyone can see a cold sore and some people will know it's herpes.

 

Why should HSV-2 positive people care about disclosure if they are not having an outbreak, yes I know about asymptomatic shedding, when even the medical community views HSV as nothing more than a skin condition and many physicians don't add HSV to their STD screenings. To put things in perspective, the Flu virus kills people every year while HSV does not, yet HSV…specifically HSV-2 causes so much unwarranted emotional suffering.

[MMissouri]

Cold sores are 100% herpes. I find it funny and sad that such a distinction has been made based on location and strain. Most people do not realize that cold sores are responsible for 50% of genital herpes cases. I've had many conversations with people I know have oral outbreaks, and the risk of oral sex, and I've found that no one wants to entertain the fact that they could possibly be the cause of someones genital infection one day. That would bring them over to our side stigma wise. (I want to clarify that I'm aware that there are some H educated people out there, I've just yet to have a conversation with one.)

 

Anyway. Kissing with no outbreak falls into a gray area. So many people already have the oral strain of HSV1 that it really isn't an issue. However, I do believe that they should disclose before performing oral sex.

 

As much as it doesn't seem "fair" that one discloses and one doesn't, or that one is more stigmatized than the other, we still disclose because people should have a choice. Most of us were unaware we were even at risk. And our situations may have been different if we were given a choice. I personally would have taken the risk, but I would have also looked into the facts, protection, etc.

[SunDevourer]

I think it falls under the sex shaming. Anything in our society that has to do with genitals, or naked bodies is a bit taboo. That and a lot of people don't know about herpes. They may be familiar with the word, but think cold sores or fever blisters are just from having a cold.

 

When I talked about it with a couple of my friends. One has herpes orally. He said his was genetics....... So much he doesn't know. People really don't know.

 

Hsv1 probably isn't an issue because people see it. Can't hide it. We get used to seeing it.what I think isn't fair is how dumb people are.

[SunDevourer]

But there are definitely different opinions about disclosing. Some feel the need to, others don't. It's not illegal. And one joke is " I'm not gonna tell you I have herpes unless I'm having an outbreak."

[Dave]

It's still interesting that if you have genital herpes and are not having an outbreak there's a 96% chance of not giving it to a partner and 99% if you're on antivirals and wearing a condom, that you should even be obligated to tell them. It's such an unwarranted stigma.

[Katidid]

I agree with you Dave. Even though I did disclose and married the man and he is H - for 20 yrs so far. We use condoms and I'm on anti viral.....but only just in the past three months for anti viral. I'm sure as many people I've kissed in my life, many had oral herpies and did not disclose. My giver did not disclose as it was 30 plus yrs ago with barely any info about it. I really think he thought if he wore a condom during an ob, he was safe. The condom came off and I ended up with it. He was having an active ob. I would have taken the risk as I was crazy about him and we stayed together about 7 yrs afterwards.

[MMissouri]

@Dave, I dislike the stats because there are so many variables to those stats. When we say there is a 99% chance you will not get herpes, it really sounds wonderful. It sounds like it's almost impossible to pass to a partner as long as you do x, y, and z. And it's not that simple. How do you explain those incidences that "sam" did x, y, and z and "sally" still got H? Oops? Not our problem?

 

What if the person has had a prior std (which raises their risk), or an immune disorder? What about little things like shaving/waxing and how that makes the risk a little higher? Having rough sex, period sex or anal sex? Again that increases the risk of transmission.

 

If people were more educated and really understood the virus, then that would be one thing. If the stigma went away and there wasn't such an emotional spiral after getting a positive diagnosis, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad to not disclose. In a way, the disclosures are bridging the gap, informing people how prevalent it is, and educating them. Just food for thought.

[optimist]

@Dave IMHO, I don't think it's just HSV2 that is expected to be disclosed, it is genital herpes in general. If someone is aware they have genital herpes, whether caused by HSV1 or HSV2, they are expected to disclose. IMO, if there is an oral infection, they are only expected to refrain from sexual contact when having an active outbreak. When I say expected, I mean expected by society, many of whose members do not realize oral herpes can spread to the genitals or that 80%+ of people with HSV don't know they have it and therefore do not even have the option of disclosing, nor do they realize how common it is and that they likely have never been tested for it. I don't think medical professionals are all on the same page about disclosure. I've heard many conflicting accounts. I think it's primarily a societal expectation. I think the medical community is more focused on treating symptoms, not reducing transmission, as evidenced by the recommendation to only test if there are symptoms.

 

I recall reading a study that mentioned that the medical community does not recommend using prophylactics for kissing to avoid asymptomatic transmission of known HSV1 infection because it would significantly affect quality of life for someone to have no affectionate contact. However, they feel it seems prudent to recommend condom use for intercourse as that's more manageable. Well, combine this with the fact that oral herpes symptoms have a less scary nickname (cold sores) and perhaps people draw a conclusion that an oral infection is never a big deal (just occasional cold sores) while a genital infection is always a big deal (think Google images for herpes). It's unfortunate, considering how much better one might understand the risk of transmission and range of symptoms of genital herpes if there was awareness that it works in the same way as oral herpes.

 

I do feel frustrated about this sometimes. As an asymptomatic carrier, I often wish I could go back in time and choose not to test. But I try to remember that it gives me an opportunity to reduce risk through antivirals, and to be more aware of anything going on with my body that could possibly be related, and I also think...who knows, maybe this will lead to something positive, even if it's just having more compassion for others. Or maybe it will bring me closer to someone, or I will feel like a stronger person for dealing with this, you just never know. It also gives me an opportunity to educate people sometimes, like a friend of mine who thinks people with herpes should not use regular dating sites, or a guy I dated who thinks you can tell who has herpes based on their history and lifestyle.

 

Also, when I go to that place of wishing I didn't know, it's because I fear it's significantly limiting my opportunities. But that hasn't really been true so far. I'm new to all this, but I'm finding most prospective partners are accepting (which is an amazing feeling when it happens), and I've still been able to be kind of crazy and spontaneous at times. Maybe not quite as much as before, but still quite a bit. Certainly much more than I anticipated.

 

 

[SunDevourer]

It is odd because no one calls it a risk if you kiss someone who has it orally and a good a Chunk of the population has it. Only in America,lol. A joke my Italian friends would say.

 

If you know someone has it orally. You still want to kiss them. There's no "risk" you just don't want to look at their face when their lip looks busted. It all has to stem around how our society views sex. No one thinks about getting herpes orally from sleeping around... Cause it can happen.

 

[optimist]

@SunDevourer Right. Some unlucky people do get severe and chronic oral outbreaks, just like how some unlucky people get severe and chronic genital outbreaks, but the risk is somehow not considered equivalent. Of course, some people have known immune issues and do make a great effort to avoid both HSV1 and HSV2. Others buy into the stigma that one is no big deal and the other is gross and scary. Perhaps it's worse in the U.S. because we so liberally use the term "cold sores" and sex education is often focused on the negative outcomes of sex.

[SunDevourer]

And people do think that cold sores and fever blisters are just that. Same with chicken pox and shingles.

[optimist]

@SunDevourer I recent read a Reddit thread in which a teenage boy was discouraged because his friends and prospective girlfriends reacted poorly whenever he disclosed that he has oral herpes. Almost every single commenter advised him to say "cold sores" because why in the world was he saying herpes, nobody wants herpes, but cold sores are no big deal.

 

I think in the U.S., people consider herpes to be synonymous with genital herpes while cold sores are something entirely different. It's unfortunate and leads to a lack of understanding. Perhaps it is helpful in normalizing or minimizing cold sores but it is by extension harmful in stigmatizing genital herpes.

[SunDevourer]

It's really the ignorance of our society. Can't be outwardly spoken about things because of how it might make others uncomfortable. These stigmas and stereotypes go for a lot of things and herpes is a good example. Say this and not that. Men who sleep around are players, but girls that do are sluts. Black females are aggressive and dominate, Asian females are submissive and soft spoken. Which just goes into misogyny.

 

Not trying to get off topic.

 

I think we need to stop calling it a risk to sleep with someone who has it in the genital area.. People do not put on lip protection when kissing someone who has herpes orally. Granted their knowledge of it may be limited and think it's just a cold sore, or if they do know and have little issues with it. We're not going to stop kissing our partners. And I'll be dam if I have to use a condom for the whole spand of my relationship. Not with this good good!

[Dave]

One of the things we need to do is stop treating HSV as if it's a big deal, when in reality it isn't. There are so many other non life threatening diseases have more devastating effects on the body and our emotional well being. Alopecia and Psoriasis come to mind. Granted they can't be spread via skin to skin contact, like HSV can. But I've seen how heartbreaking those two diseases can be on people and honestly, I'd rather have HSV.

[SunDevourer]

Hehe, I wouldn't have thought AlopeciA to be on the list. But emotionally hair loss can be devastating. Specially with no eyebrows and eyelashes

[Katidid]

@Dave you are right. My husband of 20 yrs is H- I have hvs2. He has stage 4 cancer and would prob trade that for H In a heartbeat. He doesn't want H and always uses condoms except for oral.....but I'm sure he would be glad to trade up

[MMissouri]

@katidid, I have to say, I admire your acceptance of the condom use the entire marriage. I'm more in tune with SunDevourer and his saying he'll be damned if he'll use condoms the entire span of a relationship.

 

I guess I've been very fortunate that I've never had to deal with the worry of transmission. Although we had outbreaks in different areas (he has oral, I have genital-not sure of the type), it was never an issue. I guess I better look for an H+ partner! That is the only way I think I would be happy. But regardless, kudos to you both! I couldn't have done that for so long!

[Katidid]

@MMisouri condoms never bother me at all only the kind with spermicide because I'm allergic to it LOL. So I always felt like if it didn't bother him, I was good with it. Condoms don't take away any part of the pleasure for me at all. Thanks!

[optimist]

@MMissouri I think you will find there are plenty of people who prefer to take a slightly greater risk rather than use condoms indefinitely. Just like how most people accept the risks of oral sex without condoms. I've been surprised to find HSV2- or "unknown status" people wanting to go without condoms with me even in casual sex situations. I try to be disciplined about using condoms outside of monogamy, but if ever I'm in another monogamous relationship, I plan to allow my partner to make that choice. I will admit, I'd be bummed if his choice was to use condoms forever, but I would accept it.

[Katidid]

@optimist I'm with you on that. From what I understand, getting hvs2 oraly is about unheard of. We have had oral sex for 20 yrs unprotected and even with hubby having a compromised immune system due to being on chemo, he has never gotten it oraly. I tried to find stats on getting Hvs2 oraly from oral sex and couldn't find any

[optimist]

@katidid I should have been more clear. I was referring to the fact that most people don't use condoms or dental dams for oral sex even though roughly half of new genital herpes cases are believed to be caused by HSV1 transmission through oral sex.

[Katidid]

Oh gotcha. ........do you happen to know that stats for someone getting hvs2 oraly?? Just really curious

[MMissouri]

I can't even remember what condom sex feels like lol. I've had a tubal and never thought I'd be back at a place where a barrier was necessary. Maybe they've changed since I've had sex with them, but I did thing they made sex feel different. Duller somehow. This was over 20 years ago, have they gotten better?

 

I think it my biggest issue is the mental reminder that I'm not "safe" since the only reason we'd be wearing them was because of my status.

[optimist]

@Katidid I've heard it's rare and that something like 98-99% of oral HSV is type 1 while only 1-2% is type 2. Also that if there is an outbreak at all, there is typically just one, and that HSV2 almost never asymptomatically sheds from the mouth.

[Katidid]

Oh ok...that's pretty low risk then. Here's another food for thought.....my husband actually mentioned this one time. Looks like if you really slathered with lube in the pubic area that the virus might have a harder time transmitting to an uninfected person through the lube.