Herpes outbreaks on thighs and butt

[Samantha90]

Guys I had flu like symptoms back in dec.. No lesions appeared first off, had a vaginal swab pcr and was neg.. My obs only seem to be on my thighs, bikini line, butt cheeks and lower back area and are hardly noticeable (very tiny) pin head like.. Never been able to get a positive swab. Next stop blood test in a months time..

 

My question is

1. Does anyone get these and never on actual genital mucosal skin?

2. I've had what I think to be 3 obs and this one is slightly different.. I have a red almost rash like spot size of a watch face on inner thigh.. Been there 5 days, tingles and itches but no blisters.. None of mine ever blister the skin just turns slightly red and then fades out to normal over 5 days - 2 weeks

 

2. After 2 weeks of first appearance would u say these are not active sores so transmission is unlikely (considering they never scab)?

[PositivelyBeautiful]

Hi @Samantha90... really hard to say because everyone reacts differently. It could be herpes, it might not be herpes. I have been asymptomatic as well... at the time i suspect i contracted it, i had flu-like symptoms, felt tired and lost weight in a short amount of time, but no blisters. I have seen small pimples/rash-like occurrences on my butt/outter thighs too, no pain or anything, and nothing that I could swab. I have had many theories on it... maybe it is mild symptoms, or maybe it's an immune reaction in another form to my body fighting herpes... so not herpes itself. I was also diagnosed with HPV (lucky me) at the same time... and I have heard that can be a symptom of HPV too. It can also be anything else... folliculitis (which I get in other places), eczema, etc.... It really is hard to say for sure. I know, frustrating. The blood test will definitely help you get some confirmation, but again, it's hard to say whether those physical symptoms are herpes related or not, unless you get a positive swab. Make sure to get an IGG blood test that is type specific. IGM is notoriously unreliable, and you need to know if you have HSV 1 or 2. Antibody levels will help you determine how long you might have had it, if you do.

[WCSDancer2010]

@Samantha90

 

Hello and Welcome!

 

So - do you know you were exposed to herpes? or are you just suspicious because of the symptoms?

 

Certainly there are people who only get OB's on the regular skin around the thighs and buttocks ... so it's possible that you have it there. If the sore is still there, it's still possible it's shedding... so I would be careful when that is there ... I generally wait about 8-10 days after a sore totally clears to have sex... ;)

[Samantha90]

Thanks guys.. I had never suspected I was exposed to it, was a shock when I started to have symptoms.

I do have another few questions..

1. We don't shed from thick skinned areas I've heard? Only mucosal g skin? So if no active rashes (in my case as I don't seem to get blisters/sores) then my partner would be safe to come in contact with my thighs and lower back?

 

2. When I started to have symptoms I was severely run down physically and emotionally which I believe brought on the obs.. If I have had this for several years why did I not get the flu like symptoms back then and only when first one came on? I.e does the virus absorb into the system/hide and your body dosent react to it?

 

3. Had glandular fever 9 years ago and curious as to whether any anti-bodies formed would assist in the fight of the h virus? Considering they are from the same family

[Beachdude1984]

1. Technically, the only skin surfaces on your body where shedding is impossible is the palms of your hands and soles of your feet. It is possible for you to shed virus from your butt and lower back, but a transmission from this area of your body would be highly improbable if not impossible. It is also important to note that people infected with genital HSV commonly shed asymptomatically anywhere neurons are located that originate from the sacral ganglia (I've seen it described here as the "boxer shorts area").

 

2. Yes, when someone is infected, the virus travels via neurons to the base of the spinal cord (specifically, the sacral ganglia) where it hides and establishes latency in neural cells, successfully evading the immune system. Flu-like systems are due to the immune response that is usually a result of a recent and primary infection. I have never read a scientific reason as to why some people experience a serious primary outbreak, while others are infected without symptoms and carry the virus asymptomatically for years. My guess is it has something to do with number of viral copies transferred and the state of one's immune system pre- and post infection.

 

3. No. While they may be in the same family, the relationship between mono and HSV-1 and 2 would best be described as "distant cousins." Consider that despite the fact HSV-1 and 2 are very nearly identical, antibodies specific for one do not convey to the other.

[WCSDancer2010]

Actually @Beachdude, my ex husband (who never got colds/flu) got the flu symptoms with his outbreaks for years ... so it's not just primary OB's that people get continued flu symptoms.... it was a number of years before that symptoms started to subside ... today he doesn't get them at all but this is about 25 yrs later....

 

Also, HSV2 is believed to actually help protect people from getting HSV1... but HSV1 doesn't return the favor and seems to offer little if any protection from HSV2 (as per Terri Warren RN from Westover Heights Clinic)

 

And Mono doesn't seem to offer any protection at all but as you said, it's because it's too distant in it's make-up....

[Beachdude1984]

Dancer,

 

I am well aware of the observed cross-reactivity of HSV-1 or 2 antibodies to either species of the virus. However, the exact level of conferred cross-reactive immunity is unknown, definitely is not anywhere approaching 100%, and most probably varies between individuals. Therefore, I stand by my original comment, for the sake of erring on the side of caution if nothing else.

 

I will reply to your first paragraph when I can get on a PC and talk about immunology.

 

(This site is very phone unfriendly for me. Anyone else notice this?)

[MMissouri]

@beachdude1984, looking forward to the immunology talk.

 

[fitgirl]

Erring on the side of caution is fine BUT...... the intent of our input in many cases is to provide an opportunity for people to stop obsessing about herpes traveling to every part of their body and shutting down their sexual an physical lives completely. @WCSDancer2010 was making the point (I believe) that yes, there may be a remote chance of transfer but if we all lived our lives on the 1% chance of shit happening, we would never get out of bed. The pros and cons of the forum are often in direct contrast to the point of support. Information and statistics are great, but living your life and don't stressing about ever hang nail is FAR more important in my opinion. There are always exceptions to every rule. That's life. After many years with herpes, I masturbate, I fuck, I make love, I kiss, I give blow jobs, my man goes down on me and I also run with scissors from time to time. Safety and caution is important yes, but don't let it stifle you, life does go on. The truth is.... NONE of us are experts on this virus (even the "experts" aren't experts) so sharing what we have experienced and learned is all we can do to help the people newly diagnosed and show them that herpes should not consume them.

[fitgirl]

And.... yes, my grammar sucks because I'm on my phone as well :)

[WCSDancer2010]

Erring on the side of caution is fine BUT...... the intent of our input in many cases is to provide an opportunity for people to stop obsessing about herpes traveling to every part of their body and shutting down their sexual an physical lives completely. @WCSDancer2010 was making the point (I believe) that yes, there may be a remote chance of transfer but if we all lived our lives on the 1% chance of shit happening, we would never get out of bed. The pros and cons of the forum are often in direct contrast to the point of support. Information and statistics are great, but living your life and don't stressing about ever hang nail is FAR more important in my opinion. There are always exceptions to every rule. That's life. After many years with herpes, I masturbate, I fuck, I make love, I kiss, I give blow jobs, my man goes down on me and I also run with scissors from time to time. Safety and caution is important yes, but don't let it stifle you, life does go on. The truth is.... NONE of us are experts on this virus (even the "experts" aren't experts) so sharing what we have experienced and learned is all we can do to help the people newly diagnosed and show them that herpes should not consume them.

 

Yes - thank you @fitgirl ... that WAS my point :)

 

AND my observation over the years of being on several forums seems to back that up in that I have heard of people who had HSV1 first (including myself) who then went on to get HSV2 ... but far fewer reporting that they had HSV2 and then got HSV1... so after I read the site where Terri Warren had that info, it totally made sense to me...

 

As for the phone issue ... Adrial does this out of his own pocket ... I tried to get people to donate to help to upgrade the site last year but got very little response ... as it is, the H Opp weekends and Home Courses that he's offering help to offset the cost but by no means cover anything near the time and money he has put in here. He recently upgraded the server (the traffic was making it crash a LOT!) and as he gets the funds, the site will be upgraded further :)

[Beachdude1984]

Actually @Beachdude, my ex husband (who never got colds/flu) got the flu symptoms with his outbreaks for years ... so it's not just primary OB's that people get continued flu symptoms.... it was a number of years before that symptoms started to subside ... today he doesn't get them at all but this is about 25 yrs later....

 

Dancer,

 

I'm sure you probably know some or all of what follows because you are obviously a smart lady, so I apologize in advance if I mistakenly insult your intelligence. I am posting because frankly I am intrigued by the topic and like talking about it, and for the benefit of others who possibly stand to learn something.

 

Understanding the relationship between HSV and "flu-like" symptoms requires a basic understanding of human immunology. The immune system is divided into two main, distinct components. The first component is referred to as the "innate immune system." It is the first internal line of defense against pathogenic invasion. The response of the innate immune system is very broad spectrum, and responds to any foreign object in the human body, ranging from biological pathogens such as viruses, bacteria, and fungi, all the way to a splinter in the finger. The flu-like symptoms (fatigue, fever, inflammation, etc) associated with HSV are actually a side effect of the innate immune system in action, and not a result of the virus itself. Another key funtion of the innate immune system, while simultaneously working to stifle infection, is to initiate response by the second component of the immune system, which is referred to as the "adaptive immune response." Unlike the first component, the "adaptive immune response" is highly specific, and is only effective against specific antigens. B and T cells are well known examples of antibodies that are produced by the adaptive immune response. Every human is born with HSV-specific antibodies, and these are used as a template for antibody replication upon natural HSV infection by the wild-type virus. Antibodies continue to replicate until the innate immune system and adaptive immune response work together until every HSV particle is either destroyed or escapes into latency. Upon defeat of the active viral challenge, the innate system stops working, antibody production slows down, and all physical (including flu-like) symptoms subside. Another key, distinguishing feature of the adaptive immune response is that, unlike the innate immune system which is immediate and temporary, it possesses a characteristic known as "immunological memory." Basically, the leftover antigen-specific antibody production after an unprecedented viral challenge never "goes away." Instead, it remains active in the body, ready to react in case of future presence of active viral particles (such as during outbreaks, shedding, or subsequent outside contact with the virus). Every time the adaptive immune response is exposed to HSV during these periods of viral activity, antibody replication resumes and the resulting immunological memory becomes more efficient and effective against future activity. Eventually, for most people, the adaptive immune system becomes capable of entirely containing the viral threat with no action necessary by the innate immune system. The net end result of the adaptive immunological memory is a cessation of any flu-like symptoms, and a gradual reduction (or cessation) of any physical symptoms. I can not speculate as to exactly why your ex-husband suffered persistent flu-like symptoms for decades as a result of HSV, but I can definitely say that it is not at all common. Like many other things in nature, human biological processes (such as the cell->antigen->immunity relationship) are neither perfect nor fully understood. Therefore, there will always be exceptions, rare cases, and unexplainable outcomes in every scenario.

 

Someone may be be wondering why, if immunological memory is permanent, people often are diseased repeatedly with the same virus, such as seen with influenza and rhinovirus (common cold). The answer is because these viruses mutate extremely fast (yearly), whereas HSV mutates very slowly. In fact, the modus operandi of HSV, and the main reason is has been so successful and persistent, precludes it from being a rapidly-mutating virus. Ultimately, rapid mutagenesis is just another evolutionary trait (just like HSV's ability to go dormant, or HIV's ability to mimic cellular DNA) that viruses use to gain an advantage over the immune system and ensure continuation of the species.

 

Another interesting thing in relation to HSV immunity is the fact that, due to the combined effect of the innate immune system and adaptive immune response, the viral challenge is often completely defeated during initial infection before latency can occur. The believed threshold for a normally-functioning immune system to prevent latency from occurring is 10,000 copies of viral DNA. In other words, if <10,000 copies of HSV DNA are transmitted, viral replication can not exceed the immune response and permanent, latent infection does not occur. These are the people that are often referred to as "exposed, but not infected," and the elevated HSV-specific antibody level of these exposed, uninfected people is the purported explanation for many of the false positives on antigen-specific blood tests. Personally, I find it somewhat ironic that due to a person's sexual habits, he/she is more likely to gain a natural acquired immunity to HSV, in contrast to someone who is more celibate and more vulnerable to permanent infection.

 

I believe that concludes my diatribe about immunology for the day. I hope no one died from boredom or confusion.

 

[fitgirl]

I echo that @dancer. I have much support for all that Adrial has done on every level! Minor glitches of technology are not my concern at all! The fact that we have this forum is what matters...

[fitgirl]

And @beachdude, I appreciate all your info . As I am sure others do too. Education is good for all.... admittedly I glossed over after "hello" and did need resuscitation after the first paragraph :)

That said...... we all need different types of support, its all valuable.

[Beachdude1984]

Erring on the side of caution is fine BUT...... the intent of our input in many cases is to provide an opportunity for people to stop obsessing about herpes traveling to every part of their body and shutting down their sexual an physical lives completely. @WCSDancer2010 was making the point (I believe) that yes, there may be a remote chance of transfer but if we all lived our lives on the 1% chance of shit happening, we would never get out of bed. The pros and cons of the forum are often in direct contrast to the point of support. Information and statistics are great, but living your life and don't stressing about ever hang nail is FAR more important in my opinion. There are always exceptions to every rule. That's life. After many years with herpes, I masturbate, I fuck, I make love, I kiss, I give blow jobs, my man goes down on me and I also run with scissors from time to time. Safety and caution is important yes, but don't let it stifle you, life does go on. The truth is.... NONE of us are experts on this virus (even the "experts" aren't experts) so sharing what we have experienced and learned is all we can do to help the people newly diagnosed and show them that herpes should not consume them.

 

I agree with everything you are saying, but I must admit that I am a bit confused. My reply to Dancer was in relation to cross-reactivity of HSV-1/2 antibodies, not transmission. In fact, in my original quote I clearly stated "It is possible for you to shed virus from your butt and lower back, but a transmission from this area of your body would be highly improbable if not impossible," although I should have qualified my statement with the word "asymptomatic" before the word "transmission." What I meant when I said it was better to "err on the side of caution" in my reply to Dancer is that I believe that people who are infected with either HSV-1 only or HSV-2 only should not act carelessly under the assumption they are immune to the specie for which they remain uninfected due to cross-reactivty of antibodies for the specie that is responsible for infection. The fact is, acquired immunity for HSV-1 does not fully convey to HSV-2, and vice versa.

[Beachdude1984]

Dancer said-

 

"As for the phone issue ... Adrial does this out of his own pocket ... I tried to get people to donate to help to upgrade the site last year but got very little response ... as it is, the H Opp weekends and Home Courses that he's offering help to offset the cost but by no means cover anything near the time and money he has put in here. He recently upgraded the server (the traffic was making it crash a LOT!) and as he gets the funds, the site will be upgraded"

 

 

It is also important to note that HSV-1 is primarily contracted during childhood, whereas HSV-2 is primarily contracted during adulthood. This fact alone creates a statistical probability for a HSV-1 then HSV-2 order of infection. Again, I'm not disputing the cross-reactivity of HSV-1/2 antibodies- I just believe it is not the basis for sound advice at this point.

 

Sorry to hear about the funding issues. This is a great site that has obviously helped tons of people.

Sorry, I tried to quote your entire post, but I can not use quote tags on this site with this phone.

[MMissouri]

Although Immunology was my least favorite class, I enjoyed your post! Thanks for the share.

[WCSDancer2010]

It is also important to note that HSV-1 is primarily contracted during childhood, whereas HSV-2 is primarily contracted during adulthood. This fact alone creates a statistical probability for a HSV-1 then HSV-2 order of infection. Again, I'm not disputing the cross-reactivity of HSV-1/2 antibodies- I just believe it is not the basis for sound advice at this point.

 

Well I am only passing on what Terri Warren RN, one of the top Herpes specialists in the country, advises/teaches when she is asked to speak ... as per screen 13 on her slideshare presentation here:

...

 

Where she states that "HSV2 largely protects against getting HSV1 ... HSV1 does not protect against HSV2"

 

I only pass on what info I get from places/people who are at the forefront of the Herpes movement/studies/understanding. Until recently *I* was of the understanding that both types give you at least *some* protection so it's interesting to me that HSV1 is now believed to not give you any protection at all ... and that is a good thing to know because many people believe that if they have cold sores that they are "safe" from getting either down below.

 

I can not speculate as to exactly why your ex-husband suffered persistent flu-like symptoms for decades as a result of HSV, but I can definitely say that it is not at all common. Like many other things in nature, human biological processes (such as the cell->antigen->immunity relationship) are neither perfect nor fully understood. Therefore, there will always be exceptions, rare cases, and unexplainable outcomes in every scenario.

 

First, thank you for the immunology primer... I generally knew all that although I can't quote all the exact details of how it works ... I tend to give the "readers digest" version if needed ... but it's useful information for people to have access to... especially those who like to understand the whys and hows of things ;)

 

I never said he had the flu symptoms for decades ... I said for several years ;) The OP was discussing/questioning the flu symptoms and I was just passing on that yes, *some* people's bodies may take a longer time than "normal" to get to full "adaptive" immune response (what fascinated me with him is he NEVER got colds/flu so one would have thought his seemingly strong immune system would have kicked the H-virus to the curb and adapted much faster). There are actually many people who come on here after a year still complaining of at least feeling run down/exhausted during an OB, so perhaps there's more people out there than is realized who have this more drawn-out immune adaptation to controlling the virus.

 

The "specialists" in this field will the the first to tell you that they still have a lot of holes in their understanding of the virus. I can't tell you how many times what I have "known" about the virus has changed. When I first learned I had herpes .. the belief was H1 stayed upstairs and H2 stayed downstairs. Asymptomatic shedding was totally unknown. All herpes presented as blisters (ie, no "papercut" or rash presentations and I never heard of the herpatic nerve issues of any kind). There was a big debate about women having babies with Herpes, and whether it was safe to have a baby vaginally at all. So many new "discoveries" have come to light in the last few decades... and the more I study what the specialists say, the more I realize that they have a LOT more work to do for us to understand herpes ... Dr Hansfield said somewhere that he spends more time on Herpes than any other STI when he lectures his medical students because it's the most complicated of all the STI's to understand from a medical PoV. So we can only pass on what trickles down to us from them - and some of that info takes years to reach us :/

 

BTW: If you want to get an idea of where we have come from, go on Ebay and get yourself copies of the Time Magazine from TIME Magazine (August 2, 1982 "Today's Scarlet Letter... Herpes) and Newsweek (April 12th, 1982 The Herpes Epidemic) (There were a couple more but these are the ones I've bought so far). When I got Herpes in the mid-late 70's, (and didn't know what the "rash" was) I knew nothing about any stigma either. Sometime in the next 6-8 yrs, the press got wind of some of the studies, and by 1982, Herpes was "The Scarlet Letter" here in the USA - by that time I was in the UK (where they generally don't take Herpes as "seriously" as we do here) so I was buffered from the "updated" information and the associated stigma until I moved back here in the late 80's ... and believe me, I bought into the fear and angst like everyone else when I suddenly learned about asymptomatic shedding and the possibility of HSV1 transferring to the genitals (I have both :( ) ... I might as well have been newly diagnosed ...

 

What makes me so mad/sad/frustrated is that even in the 80's they knew how emotionally devastating the virus could be yet the CDC then chose to put their heads in the sand as far as public education (about transmission ... esp with oral sex and the limited protection that condoms provide) and testing, thus allowing the "Epidemic" that Newsweek and Time headlined (from the virus itself to all the emotional and physical pain.. which hasn't changed in the last 30 years) to continue once the furor over Herpes died down (by the end of 1982) in the news headlines..... and THAT, to me, is unconscionable....and something I hope to change ....

 

(((HUGS))) to all :)

 

 

[Beachdude1984]

It is also important to note that HSV-1 is primarily contracted during childhood, whereas HSV-2 is primarily contracted during adulthood. This fact alone creates a statistical probability for a HSV-1 then HSV-2 order of infection. Again, I'm not disputing the cross-reactivity of HSV-1/2 antibodies- I just believe it is not the basis for sound advice at this point.

 

Well I am only passing on what Terri Warren RN, one of the top Herpes specialists in the country, advises/teaches when she is asked to speak ... as per screen 13 on her slideshare presentation here:

...

 

Where she states that "HSV2 largely protects against getting HSV1 ... HSV1 does not protect against HSV2"

 

That is a new one on me, thanks for the heads up. I don't have the time at the immediate moment to search, but do you happen to have any links to peer-reviewed research regarding the cross-protection of HSV-2 to HSV-1? I am interested in reading more about this topic.

 

As to the rest of your post, I totally understand and agree. The HSV genome has not even been completely mapped yet, and scientists have yet to understand the function of most proteins in the genetic material that has been identified. That is in addition to the fact that 20-something strains of HSV-2 and 50-something strains of HSV-1 have been discovered, but the differences and intricacies of each are largely unknown. It is important to remember that modern medical understanding of human physiology and pathogens (and viruses in particular) is a relatively new field of study. The most frustrating part of the whole situation to me is that we have had the technology to create an effective HSV-vaccine for 15 or 20 years, using the proven method of live vaccination, which only requires a basic understanding of the viral life cycle. But due to ambivalence from the scientific community, we are still years away from the possibility of an effective HSV vaccine. I do whole-heartedly agree that a lack of education by government, ambivalence/indifference by the scientific/medical community, and a propagation of the stigma by drug companies and the public, have all combined to create the tragic story of herpes.

[fitgirl]

@dancer

As usual, I concur with you. That is exactly my approach to this virus and everything else in the world for that matter! As a nutritionist I have seen the "experts" continually change their so called facts about foods and when when it comes to vitamins and minerals, very little is actually known. We can only be forensic in our research and collect info from all sources. We can never be certain, there are no absolutes.

 

I am actually one of those people who's immune system did not "kick the virus to the curb". I live an extremely healthy lifestyle that would rival most, I sleep no less than 8hrs a night, eating naturally and organically, work out 6 days a week and lead a low stress lifestyle. I rarely get sick even. Though I have a grade school child and work hands on with people daily. I tried every natural remedy in the book from ozone therapy to lysine etc.... yet, after 15 years with the virus I was still getting OB's at least 6 times a year with varying degrees of severity. One of worst OB's was only 1.5yrs ago!!!! They lasted on average 7 to 14 days so the immunity theory clearly did not apply to me. I tried valtrex for and OB one time and it made me sick!!!! BUT...... I went to my infectious disease doc for more advice and he suggested I try it again but with only 500mg daily. I was motivated to try it because I was entering a new relationship with a H- partner. Low and behold..... the 500mg didn't bother me at all and in the year and a half I have had only one OB that lasted 2 days. For me, the suppressive therapy has been fantastic, my body obviously was one that needed the meds to control the virus.

 

And regarding the Healthcare systems, there are pros and cons to both but as was mentioned, other countries don't see herpes as such a big deal. There is also a profound lack of knowledge and many assumptions made about Canadian Healthcare and medical expertise. We are often under acknowledged for our contributions and approach to ensuring our citizens are receiving the care they need. Here in Canada they don't test for herpes or hpv and even if you request it, you are not likely to get it! The attitude is that hsv and hpv are not curable nor are they life threatening (directly that is). Of course hpv can lead to cancer but they do not test for the hpv since almost everyone has it, it is not treatable and not all strains are life threatening. In a pap, they are testing for irregular cells as a result of hpv, NOT testing for the virus itself. I have to say..... while I know the emotional toll that herpes takes is huge for many people but when the docs and nurses view it as relatively minor and are happy to treat the symptoms it does make you realize that we can have the tendency to blow it out of proportion. I am not minimizing the pain and struggle of having herpes for those who are still learning to accept it, merely pointing out what I say over and over.... herpes is just herpes don't give it more power than it deserves. Deal with it in any way that works for you then get out there and live your life!

[WCSDancer2010]

 

That is a new one on me, thanks for the heads up. I don't have the time at the immediate moment to search, but do you happen to have any links to peer-reviewed research regarding the cross-protection of HSV-2 to HSV-1? I am interested in reading more about this topic.

 

The most frustrating part of the whole situation to me is that we have had the technology to create an effective HSV-vaccine for 15 or 20 years, using the proven method of live vaccination, which only requires a basic understanding of the viral life cycle. But due to ambivalence from the scientific community, we are still years away from the possibility of an effective HSV vaccine.

 

I haven't seen the peer reviewed studies but I trust Terri Warren RN as she has been in the trenches, dealing with patients on a daily basis for many years ... in a way I trust her observations and experience more than the "researchers" who generally are looking at a few hundred people at best most of the time :/

 

As for having the technology - they were on the way to working on a cure/vaccine back in the 80's ... then HIV/AIDS came about and every single penny available to research in infectious diseases went there for at least 20 years ... we suddenly became the red-headed step child ... pushed into a corner and forgotten until relatively recently ... and given how long it takes a drug to get to the public, we are basically back at square 1 from the time when I first learned I had HSV ... which is why I tell people to not hold their breath waiting for a cure. All we need is a new, deadly disease and we will be put right back on the bottom of the pile.

 

That said, I am working towards some campaigns and such to get people educated ... and if I have *my* way, we'll SHAME the CDC into changing their protocols about testing and education :p

 

 

[WCSDancer2010]

@dancer

As usual, I concur with you. That is exactly my approach to this virus and everything else in the world for that matter! As a nutritionist I have seen the "experts" continually change their so called facts about foods and when when it comes to vitamins and minerals, very little is actually known. We can only be forensic in our research and collect info from all sources. We can never be certain, there are no absolutes.

 

Interestingly, I first realized just how little "science" and "the medical community" knew when I was in High School ... I was in the FFA and there was a huge campaign spouting "Milk is a Natural" at all the fairs and such. Then all of a sudden, milk was a "bad" food - full of fat and cholesterol and bound to clog your arteries .... then i saw a similar change in the attitude towards eggs and some other foods ... which 10 yrs later were suddenly "healthy" for you again.... and then there's the recent changes in the "Food Pyramid" ... and tons of other foods and supplements that are all the rage one year, then suddenly we learn that they will cause all kinds of harm to you the next year , and then that gets poo-poo'd and after awhile you just have to figure out what works for YOU and go with that ...

 

And don't get me started on how often I've diagnosed what was going on for me and had the Dr tell me I was wrong, only to be proven right later (including an ectopic pregnancy that nearly killed me :( )

 

Science is a wonderful, but imperfect and certainly incomplete thing that will always be "in progress" and we just have to get educated and take what we learn and then figure out what works for US ... and the moral of the story for *me* is to ALWAYS do your homework for ANY illness/disease because like it or not, most doctors are only *partially* educated about most things .... they just have too much information being thrown at them ... so it's up to US to fill in the blanks when it comes to our own health :/

[seeker]

@ beachdude, ive seen terri warrens quotes on hsv1/2. its more observational over the course of @ 30 years of dealing with herpes in one of the top sexual health clinics in the world. they are working on 2 different vaccines for H among other things. while I believe she never states its 100% its that they have never had a verifiable case where someone with established hsv2 has gone on to get hsv1. you alluded to something in one of your post that would make sense. looking at it evolutionarily ( thank god for spell check) H1 can and often does get transmitted earlier in life whereas H2 is in general sexually transmitted and therefore needs a sexually " mature" vector. so H1 runs into less individuals with H2 than the opposite, therefore H2 had an evolutionary need to overcome H1 but the opposite isn't necessarily true. its been shown that people who have established H1 when exposed to H2 tend to have a lessened initial OB and less subsequent OBs also. not 100% of course. however, IF lets say one partner has H2 and then performs oral sex on a partner with GH1 during an OB and the H2 partner has an open cut/canker sore or such, then who knows.

I have seen in multiple threads on medhelp, on westovers forums, etc where terri states its believes to be damned near 100% immunity to H1 for H2 carriers. I believe ive also read that H2 tends to be a more virulent virus than its sibling and elicits a greater immune response.

 

to add further, our support group just started back up and it used to be run by a long time nurse in the sexual health field and someone had her info from a couple years ago and it was in her notes the observation about H1/2 immunity. she left our area a couple of years ago but was really big in the herpes field from my understanding, went all over the country pushing for research, gathering resources etc.

 

whether there are people actually researching this im not sure, I know ive seen research on autoinoculation with rats but cant remember for this. not sure if its a good candidate for research, maybe a PHDs dissertation, if their university would even accept it.

 

I shall have to look it up.

[seeker]

@ wcsdancer and fitgirl remember fen-fen? they really got that one wrong didn't they!

[WCSDancer2010]

@seeker

 

Yup - that's one of MANY fuck-ups that, despite all the FDA testing, managed to create havoc with many people....

 

Look at Fosamax - touted to reverse Osteoporosis ... caused Jaw fractures :/

http://www.drugwatch.com/fosamax/