certain things trigger herpes depression and worthlessness

[inspired32]

I have been doing very well lately with my herpes status and spend an entire summer soley learning about myself and doing things I love for me. I am back at school (my last year in college) and still consider myself to be doing overall well. However, I know life is all about balance and positive and negative things happening all the time, but I have found a nasty trigger. Just recently I left the guy I was casually seeing because I finally got him to voice it was never going to progress past casualness, and knowing myself that I needed a deeper connection and commitment to disclose and take intimacy further (intercourse) I had to reject him.

 

I have felt good since then, but just recently I have met another guy who is probably just for fun. I have made out with him, but I am contemplating and vacillating on what I am doing. I realized something I keep forgetting. Can I just make out with a guy and have fun? I don't think I really can ... because my integrity catches up with me. I am finding that after a couple nights of just making out (at a bar), I realize I am going to begin expecting a connection and a buildup of courtship since I refuse to be intimate without disclosing. I have never had the opportunity of disclosing with a guy since my giver, but I know that when I do it has to be a serious matter.

 

Can I not really have fun casual hook ups anymore? I am just also upset because I have several run ins with my giver on campus, at the gym, and at bars and this weekend I saw him and his "partner in crime" if you have read my previous post about how I got entangled in a casual fling with his friend. Both of those boys are bad news, my giver even has a long-distance girlfriend now, but when I see them they stare me down like hawks. It really gets to me and makes me feel worthless reminding me I still face a struggle when it comes to sexual intimacy.

 

I am just bumming out and feeling a tad lonely. I just also recently created a super (low key) profile on positive singles with no picture and barely any information. I am trying that out for fun, not even necessarily for a date, but am afraid I will begin to rely on it as the only route toward finding a mate. Is anyone else having these triggers for slight depression? I just want some support :( My roommate knows what I have and who my giver is and supports me, but she doesnt know what I am going through because she doesn't have herpes.

[mr_hopp]

Hey inspired32! I know how you feel. Having herpes can feel like all the casual hookups are gone. And that's just plain bullshit. ;) Just like what I just recently posted on everyday_normalguy's post, you are giving herpes way too much power to determine how your love life (and hookup life, for that matter) is gonna go. That's ultimately up to you. This is another example of a self-fulfilling prophecy coming into play. If you believe that you won't be able to have casual hookups, you won't put yourself out there for casual hookups. Then of course you won't be having casual hookups! I heard a great quote that reminds me of this: "Success is directly proportional to the amount of difficult conversations you're willing to have." This applies here. Totally.

 

And the same goes for when you see your giver and the partner in crime. You're letting them affect you. Do you see even how you say when you see them, it "makes me feel worthless"? That's giving them all the power to make you feel a certain way. You determine that. Nobody can make you feel a certain way. No one can make you feel worthless. What's happening is they are reminding yourself of the beliefs you already have about being worthless. And you're not worthless. This is an opportunity to shift that belief in yourself so they don't trigger you anymore. If you no longer own that belief, what they say or how they look at you won't trigger that belief. It's like if someone cut you down saying your green hair sucks. You don't have green hair, so it clearly doesn't apply to you.

 

I am confused, however, when you talk about making out at the bar and then your integrity catches up to you. We still get to act from our integrity, even if it’s a one-night stand. The disclosure conversation doesn’t have to sound like “I love you, I see us going so deep and committed and I want you to know something before we move toward marriage ...” It can sound like “Hey, I’m so hot for you right now, and before we get intimate, I want you to know something important …” The disclosure conversation is all about honesty before becoming physically intimate with someone else. That's it. Common human decency at its core. That doesn't take random flings off the menu. It just means having a conversation that EVERYONE should be having before having sex. Then you're opening the door for them to tell you what they have or don't have. Important stuff. Then let the games begin! ;)

 

By the way, we'll be working on how to disclose from integrity and self-acceptance in any situations at the herpes weekend seminar. You should come! You'll get a lot of "aha" moments around all of this and more. ;)

[inspired32]

I hear what you are saying about disclosing even to casual hookups. I think my discrepancy is occurring due to the fact that even before I got herpes, I still did not prefer casual hook ups and did not go far with them at all past kissing or touching. Oral was something that took even a few months to get to with my giver. I find oral to be very intimate and now that I have herpes I do not see myself receiving it until I am in a relationship and have disclosed. I have, however, given it, which is something I still have mixed feelings about. The guy I am talking to now- I see it as he does not know me very well as a person- and at the same time I do not want anyone and everyone knowing about my private herpes because to me that is something I only want a select amount of people to know about me if they are "worth" knowing. I don't even know yet if this guy is a good guy for me- and I do not plan to do more than kiss him until I even have the slightest idea of that. My main fear about telling a causal fling quickly is not as much rejection, but the fear that they will tell other people and rumors will begin to flow around/ also them judging who I am based on that. I have only told my best friend here who is my roommate, my mom and sister and best friend from back home. I just do not feel like it is right for a "random" person to know something so private about me without knowing me well. In order for a guy to know me well there should and will probably be a deep connection forming which in turn is not a casual hookup it is the building blocks of a relationship. I hear myself saying that- haha and laugh :) because no matter what I try to do I still am a relationship person just as I was before herpes. Is there some happy medium here or am I already doing it? I still, though, feel a bit conflicted.

[mr_hopp]

I'm confused about what you really want. It sounds like you're longing for something you never would have wanted to begin with, but now that it's off the table, you want it more. ;) Because either way, when you get sexual with someone you are intimate with them. Physically intimate. But yet we shy away from being emotionally intimate enough to have a conversation that shows you care about your and his sexual health. And with so many STDs running around out there, thank goodness for us having a great excuse to ask THEM what they have, too.

 

And you know, about the whole "everyone knowing" thing ... What I want to ask is 1) What is so important about what other people think about you having herpes? and 2) What does that say about someone that would have them not want to get to know someone because of a simple virus? If that's worst case scenario, then I'd say it's a pretty damn good filter to get the people out of your life that you wouldn't want in it anyway. And yes, I know you don't WANT everyone to know something vulnerable like that about you, but will you let that hold you back from your happiness? You're making what other people MIGHT think about you more important than your own happiness and openness. Do you see that?

 

I heard a story once of someone who was once hooking up back stage at a high school reunion. Before they got to the point of having sex, he disclosed to her. Instead of her seeing what an good person he was for disclosing, her stigma and negative beliefs about herpes put a veil over her eyes. Instead of appreciating him for his vulnerability and honesty, she decided to go on stage at the reunion, take the live microphone and announce it to everyone. He was devastated. AND even though it sucks that she broke his trust like that (which shows what kind of a person she is), now it is what it is. What does it mean now? That his life is over? Actually, it means that now that the secret is out, only the people who allow stigmas and what other people think will be filtered out of his life. Again, I wouldn't wish this upon anybody. How horrible of a thing to happen when you do something so right and so honorable to have that stomped on with such cruelty. And after you get past your anger toward that person for being so disconnected and horrible, what you're left with is people who know he has herpes. That's it. And the people who see HIM instead of seeing herpes are the people who will still be in his life. And those are the people who deserve to be there.

[Shannon (SingBlueSilver)]

Inspired32...I totally RELATE to you! I too struggle with wanting casual or even just the idea that it's an option for me and wanting a deep meaning relationship. I caught mine during a "casual" encounter stage in my life. It's a long story but you might like to hear it. So email me privately and we can talk. I'm realizing very slowly that all this is possible but it just takes a bit more effort to find quality people even if they are casual quality people! :-) Anyhow, if you want to talk, I think as a woman of 39, I've seen it all and am struggling with this stuff too!

[Carlos]

hey there (h) buddies. this is a great thread. i'm lovin it. especially the following: "It sounds like you're longing for something you never would have wanted to begin with, but now that it's off the table, you want it more."

 

Adrial, you have so eloquently and simply worded something that so many of us grapple with: an anxiety to be liked/loved by EVERYONE. i certainly am guilty as charged.

 

what is it about trying to conquer the love/validation/approval of those who coldly turn a shoulder when we show vulnerability?

 

i've read some books on the subject that might shed light on this issue:

The Mastery of Love, by Don Miguel Ruiz

The Velvet Rage, by Alan Downs (for a gay male audience)

and ANXIOUS TO PLEASE, by James Rapson & Craig English.

 

"Anxious" is the typical 'how-to-blah-blah' effort, yet it's packed with some really good ideas. one being the practice of disillusionment: helping the transforming person to let go of both the magical fantasies (that lovers fulfill ALL needs, e.g. unconditional love, magical sex, constant reassurance) and expectations of doom (that lie dormant within our psyche, e.g. expectations of abandonment, scarcity, heartache).

 

at times i feel like when i meet someone who lights me up, I abandon myself and idealize [him] to the point where he can do no wrong... then reality sets in: he might not be the right person for me, yet i'm overwhelmed with feelings of love: "I have enough for the two of us!"

 

It seems I am drawn to the indifferent man like a moth to a flame :\

[JanetD]

 

I would like to offer a radically and probably very unpopular opinion about casual hook-ups. I personally believe that even if we have all the information and facts about a situation, it takes more than 5 or 10 minutes to make a decision about something that is going to change our lives forever. No one would think twice about taking a couple of weeks to make a decision about changing jobs or buying a house but we’re supposed be able to make a decision about something that changes your life as radically as getting herpes does in a couple minutes. That’s just plain crazy!

 

Not everyone has the maturity or the self-confidence to ask the right questions in order to gain the clarity that they would need in order to make an informed decision, especially if things have already heated up and you’re not thinking clearly anyway.

 

Most people who don’t have herpes have no idea what it’s like to actually have it and I think it’s up to us, who know what it’s like to protect them until they have had the chance to do their own research, time to sit quietly and come to a decision that feels right for them.

 

Often very caring people do express a lot of concern for the difficultly we may have in disclosing and want to comfort us and make us feel better about ourselves and I think there is a temptation to misinterpret this to mean that they aren’t concerned about getting herpes.

 

Yes, in very rare cases it may be OK to go ahead and have sex with someone immediately after disclosing. If your potential partner is extremely knowledgeable about herpes; has a high level of maturity; a strong spiritual practice and you take every precaution regarding using safe sex then go for it. Otherwise having casual sex even after disclosure, in my opinion, is just plain self-centered and irresponsible.

 

 

[mr_hopp]

Thanks for saying that, Janet. It's a great clarification. I do feel that we do have a responsibility to protect AND we can't make everyone else's decision for them. And yes, we need to actually use our intuition and common sense to feel out whether someone's acceptance is true acceptance or blind/ignorant acceptance. We can't just take the "yes" at face value. Especially when all those endorphins are putting a sexy veil over the eyeballs. ;) To actually make sure the other person knows what herpes is and the risks involved is vital and responsible. All of that is vital before actually having sex. And what's also vital is that along with giving those details we perpetuate the societal shame that comes with it. To let them know the facts devoid of the shame. I'm big on getting right with it in ourselves first before we go disclosing to others. Then others can make their own decisions based on their own beliefs and perspective.

[Carlos]

I hope other Forum members engage in this thread. Very important topics are being discussed here.

 

JANET, ADRIAL... I concur. From the gay male perspective, I can assert that "hook-ups" are quite irresponsible, selfish, and dangerous! (my life was forever impacted via casual sex with--what is now termed and widely accepted as--a fuck buddy). Needless to say, an extensive period of seclusion ensued. And feelings of shame, loathing and sadness were all the norm.

 

A decade later, since diagnosis, I'm still learning about and juggling things learned from the impact of becoming HSV+ and what I discovered this summer while I joined in the dating pool was eye-opening. Disclosing doesn't stop at "the talk" and it isn't just about the HSV+ person getting an emotional need met. It takes two to tango, and the tango we dance as HSV+ people is far more complex than getting a "yes" from the HSV- partner. A synchronized sense of responsibility, respect, and reason must be exercised. and as Adrial puts it, "we need to actually use our intuition and common sense to feel out whether someone's acceptance is true acceptance or blind/ignorant acceptance."

 

At the point of disclosure, the HSV- person doesn't want to be seen as an asshole or as an apathetic dimwit; nor does the HSV+ person. Hence, time to digest, research, evaluate and decide is critical.

 

I cannot see myself at this stage indulging in the blindness that a hook-up provides... and NO, just because I'm on anti-viral/homeopathic medication will I throw caution to the wind and put on that "sexy veil over my eyeballs."

 

The main reason why an HSV2 vaccine is being researched is because it increases the risk of HIV infection. "Genital herpes is associated with an increased risk of HIV acquisition by two-to-threefold, HIV transmission on a per-sexual act basis by up to fivefold, and may account for 40–60% of new HIV infections in high HSV-2 prevalence populations. Indeed, the impact of suppressing HSV-2 shedding and associated disease on the rate of HIV acquisition is currently being tested in three proof-of-concept trials" (http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/86/10/07-046128/en/)

 

History has painfully shown us that these viruses do not discriminate. I am no more at risk for being a 40 y/o homosexual male than a 20 y/o heterosexual female. The truth that acquiring HSV has complicated matters for many of us might be a blessing in disguise after all... Yet we cannot afford to throw caution to the wind and seek validation from a hook-up or a "fuck buddy". There is tremendous value in learning from others' mistakes.

[lelani]

Hey Inspired you are judging yourself way more than anyone else will judge you...so what if they know. I have learned over the years being a very public figure that todays gossip about you lasts only that long. People think about you wayyyyyy less than you think they are because they are more concerned about the crap that is happening in their own lives than yours..and if they do gossip it means they are just trying to distract themselves from their own crappy life.

 

And as for casual hookups...like Adrial I thought you didn't want them anyway. I actually even make a point of only kissing someone I want to be intimate with emotionally...that's hugely intimate to me. I would ask what you would get out of casual hookups...? Being accepted? Validated? Noticed? Feeling sexy?

 

I agree with Carlos and Janet that hookups are by nature selfish...and that is all they are, a sexy selfish little pastime that may bring all those feelings of acceptance and validation...but they can come at a price for EVERYONE. Personally I don't want to pay that price...I have contracted enough from committed relationships to play russian roulette with a casual hookup. I don't feel like I am missing out on anything...I feel empowered to make good decisions for myself.

 

As for the ex? The best revenge is to smile and live well...let go of the anger and be the best person you can be, live the best life you can. They stare...? Smile, say hello and move on..try it and you will see what I mean — there is power in it and then voila that trigger is gone!

 

And Inspired, if you make choices from a place of integrity rather than ones that require your integrity to catch up with you, life becomes alot easier and lighter. So keep learning about yourself ... herpes is really positive trigger for that!