How Do You Deal With Herpes Conversations?

[Anna01]

@hippyherpy

I get what you mean about the women being irresponsible and putting themselves in a bad situation by meeting someone for the first time and wanting to have unprotected sex. They are responsible for their health...100% I agree. I think that it is important to focus on yourself vs. others. It isn't about what these women are doing. It is about you. We can have the casual hook up lifestyle all we want BUT we should try to do it the *right* way. When you find out you have an STD it is common courtesy to let someone know. You may be the wake up call for that girl. She may see how lucky she was to have someone like you be honest and show her how risky her actions really are. So many people are naive. They don't think bad things will happen to them.

 

I understand with the lifestyle you lead, you feel you shouldn't have to disclose because it is a risky way of life period. However, you can live a risky life but still have integrity. You can still have enough respect for these women to let them know about your condition. At the end of the day it is not about them and what they are doing. All you can control is yourself. So it only makes sense to do right by you and your conscience. Honesty is better for your mind and your heart. I think the sexual experience is better with everything out on the table instead of keeping something like this private.

[hippyherpy]

In all honesty, at this time, for me, it comes down to the risk factor and how I feel about having sex with them at all regardless of disclosure or non-disclosure. My point is this- let's say that you are having an outbreak, and you do disclose, and the person still wants to have sex or go down on you. This may sound like a crazy situation, but I have friend whose girlfriend wanted that even though he told her "no"- he was having an outbreak and she still wanted to go down on him. He thinks he gave it to her. She just did not give a fuck about the herpes. It was her choice, but I don't know if I'd want to be in the position that my friend was in. It sounds like she's nuts, but maybe she's enlightened because she doesn't care.

 

I don't think I would do anything with an outbreak happening regardless of disclosure.

 

On the other side of the coin is daily Valtrex, condoms, no-outbreak-sex, and when I had my first outbreak, it was only on the tip of my penis, and it has healed. The risk of transmission is so low that I feel confident enough about having sex with the person if I disclose or not. In this kind of situation- let's say something super casual like what I mentioned above, I think there would definitely have to be a disclosure talk if the possibility of doing sex without a condom comes up (as far as transmission risk goes) for me to feel confident having sex with them.

 

That's where I'm at with my thinking as far as how I feel, and I'm still on the fence about disclosure in that situation. I know people with herpes who do not disclose but take the preventative measures, and they get are almost on a political mission with regards to this and living their life how they want to while keeping the risk very low.

 

Then there are other people I know who take the general perspective of what we talk about here and are adamant about disclosure and think that once you've disclosed and let them have all the info then it's totally up to them and even will have sex on a breakout so long as the other person has been disclosed to and is making the "yes" for it.

 

We talked about intoxication in the posts above. Love can function very much like a drug and can impair people's judgement. Someone without herpescould be completely sober, yet be madly in love with someone else who has herpes, and consent post disclosure and all that, and still not make the best decisions with regards to risky behavior and transmitting herpes. It can be argued that they were under the influence of powerful pair-bonding hormones that the body generates like oxytocin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[S123]

@WCSDancer2010 I see what you're saying. When I was mentioning the difference between disclosing with casual sex and someone who you were seeing potential/building to be in a relationship with, I considered the difference being the level of exposure they would have. If it's someone you're sleeping with once and will probably never sleep with again, it may require a less intimate conversation. Whereas if it's someone that you're potentially sleeping with everyday, they would be exposed more often, therefore they may want more information. I didn't see it as putting my immediate needs before the other persons though, although you make extremely valid points. Thanks for your reply :)

[2Legit2Quit]

@hippyherpy I have a question. .08 is the legal driving limit correct? That's about 2 drinks for a female, depending on her size and tolerance of alcohol of course. I have a friend who gets drunk on two drinks. She is very skinny and a vegetarian, which means she doesn't have a whole lot in her stomach to really absorb that alcohol. So w that said, science show's that after just a couple of drinks, which most of us can say we're totally fine, even to drive at just two drinks, then why is .08 our limit before science says we are impaired? I'm one of those who can hold their liquor and unless you know me really well, you cannot tell I'm wasted, because I can still hold a conversation...in this state although I can walk and talk, I have done things I'd never do had I been sober and I think most of us can all say we've done something we would have never done, while under the influence. Happens every day.... Just something to think about.. It's not up to us to judge how impaired or not impaired someone is. Not everyone is a sloppy drunk... I'm not.. It's actually quiet impressive how put together I can come off when 3 sheets to the wind. Doesn't mean that I'm in my right mind though.

[hippyherpy]

The car analogy is a good one.. if someone drives drunk and they hit someone, they are still going to be responsible and can't use alcohol as an excuse.

 

If people are worried about doing risky things when they are drunk, they need to deal with it- maybe not go out drinking as much, find a system of checks and balances, or forego drinking altogether.

 

And then when you factor in the risk of them hooking up with a "random" stranger in a bar in an area like NYC where the 1/4 have herpes and 80% don't know.. you are doing them a favor if they go with you and you are taking preventative measures because it's less of risk with you than with the that 1/4, 80% not knowing person.

 

That's not an excuse for not disclosing, but as far as looking out for other people and being responsible etc., it says a lot about your intentions and not being reckless.

 

----

 

A lot of this reminds me of the arguments for and against legalizing drugs. Who do you blame, the drug dealer or the addict? Or, is the big state to blame for all the violence, incarceration, and problems associated with that scene (the analogy in herpes would be the pharmaceutical companies that make money off the stigma are similar to the privatized prison industry making money off of perpetuating a negative social thread).

 

Some would argue that an adult person is capable of making their own decisions and taking their own risks.. the knowledge and statistics are out there, and that we shouldn't have any drug laws. Not saying this is my opinion, but it's not an unpopular one among certain groups.

 

The analogy with herpes would be that the stats are out there as well, and that anyone who is taking the dive into the casual sex / hook-up world should be responsible for their own actions. At the very least they can ask the other person if they have any STDs.

 

In my experience, people rarely ever bother to even ask about STDs. There are some girls who do, for sure. I used to bring it up before I got herpes- the only reason I know I have herpes is because I was regularly getting all my blood tests done every few months. A lot of people don't even care about that stuff as much as me.. I am sort of a germaphobe.

 

If people are not getting tested, not bothering to ask, and in some case not caring if condoms are used with strangers (or even insisting on no condoms), than how can we say that the all the responsibility is with the infected person, especially if they are doing all the prevention? If anything, the infected person should be more worried about the uninfected.

 

 

[2Legit2Quit]

That's not comparing apples to apples my friend. We know we're not supposed to drive drunk and it is against the law. Totally different situation. Well, sorta . because we know we're supposed to disclose by law, so it doesn't absolve us of responsibility, just because we got drunk and "forgot to tell someone before sexy time.

 

Or maybe, people who have an infectious disease, need to take responsibility for their own actions and not place it on others and it is their duty to disclose? If it wasn't those who got infected, wouldnt be able to make a legal case out of it.

 

I was under the impression that you had come to a place of deciding the right thing is to disclose, but I'm seeing the same argument cases you made w your very first posts. Have I missed something possibly or are you still trying to decide if it's your responsibility to be upfront? If I missed something, my apologies, work has been insane for me and I very well could have missed it.

 

What is it may I ask, that you are looking for from anyone on the site to answer regarding your arguments on disclosure? I'm feeling like maybe we're totally missing what you're looking for possibly? Just don't want us to go in circles, because what you're looking for may be going completely over our heads?

[hippyherpy]

I'm looking for perspectives on all of this as well as deciding on a way forward. I'm not settled on anything yet, and I've been trying to understand exactly what my situation is, because it's been very clear to me that I had the wrong conceptions about herpes before I got it. Maybe that's just because of my personal experience with it so far.

 

Before I got it, I was very off on the statistics of how many people have it, and how easily it is transmitted, as well as not knowing that it could be transmitted asymptomatically.

I also didn't understand that there was a false stigma because I too had equated a herpes diagnosis as almost finding out you have HIV (or at least as a social death sentence). I had no idea about the role that pharmaceutical companies played in drumming up stigma.

 

I have been trying to find my bearings post diagnosis.

[2Legit2Quit]

Out of curiosity, what were your misunderstandings about it previously?

 

You have mentioned several times about how the information is all at our finger tips and this is why we should all be aware of the information and statistics and you seem like a pretty thorough guy who likes to cover every possible tid bit of information out there; may I ask especially since you are someone who engages in casual sex frequently, what made you not aware of the information about H prior to diagnosis?

[hippyherpy]

I had heard wrong info on the statics and was essentially believing that getting heroes was very rare, or was mainly either a scare tactic or an STD from an older generation. This because I only knew one person with it who had told me he had it and he was older. After I disclosed to some people, I found out that like 3-4 people in my social network had it but never told me. Some of them are pretty close.

[2Legit2Quit]

You did mention that two girls disclosed to you though, prior to your diagnosis? You also mentioned previously, bsing a bit freaked out the next day. Was it not enough to urge you to Google some information?

[hippyherpy]

I did google some info, but not the right type. The most recent girl, who has had it for ten years was adamant that it was impossible for her to give it to me. That said, she also believed that taking certain natural hallucinogens would help prevent the spread.

 

If anything, getting herpes had made me want to review all of the major STDs and get vaccines for what I can (HPV I think).

[2Legit2Quit]

So you didn't know all this information and had assumptions, even w that info available, so would it be safe to say that others are just naively ignorant to it as you were?

[hippyherpy]

I'm not responsible for what other know or don't know about herpes. Minimum is that I'm obligated to let them know I have it.

 

Let's say they came out with a treatment for herpes that reduced the risk down to .00001% chance of transmission. How would you feel about disclosure at that point?

[2Legit2Quit]

While i appreciate your honest response, i just asked if it were safe to say people are just as naively ignorant as you used to be, which would be yes or no. Whether you are responsible for what others know, wasn't something I inquired about.. Well I'm glad you finally have come to the conclusion that you need to disclose. That's progress . :-)

 

Even w it that low, I'd still disclose and those numbers would make disclosure suoer easy. Those numbers would eliminate a stigma essentially, but I'm dealing w what we have presently and even myself, question if the numbers are really as low as they say w transmission risk, being it is an epidemic and that most cases are happening during asymptomatic shedding.

[WCSDancer2010]

Blackout drunk is an issue for both partners. If someone an hold a conversation than they aren't so drunk as to not be able to make consent choice. If anything, people tend to act more on their gut feeling. Telling a drunk person you have herpes and they are going to go on their gut with regards to what herpes means for them (usually something very frightening like HIV).

 

Honey, I have a friend who says she's never seen me drunk. I laugh inside because many of the nights we hung out I was DEFINITELY drunk. But I can hold alot and I won't slur.... AND, I would be more likely to jump in bed with someone in that state.... which is why I don't drink much around a new guy until I know I'm ready to let go of all my inhibitions with them :)

 

Many girls drink precisely to help them to get up the nerve to hook up btw :)

 

And one other point about bedding an inebriated girl.... as a man, fact of the matter is that she *could* call the rape card on you if she wakes up the next morning and doesn't remember *consenting* ... so just throwing that out there. I agree, she *should* be responsible for knowing her drinking limits. But sometimes we don't realize how strong a drink is (My first experience of Long Island Ice Tea taught me that one!). Perhaps she's just had a bad break-up and she's trying to escape the pain by getting drunk and hooking up (or she's looking to "get revenge" on the guy) ... or she's on new medication and doesn't realize how it interacts with booze (my ex-hubby got black-out drunk several times after they put him on anti-depressants because he had to learn his "new normal" limits).

 

Certainly the issue of drinking and sex is a controversial one as far as "consent" is concerned. My personal belief is the one who knows better, should do better...however that looks :)

 

The disclosure thing is all about your emotional frame. You have to override their fear emotion with confidence for them to believe what you say, and this has nothing to do with facts, stats, and numbers. There are a lot people out there who will not get or understand the numbers even if the aren't drunk. They are going to honor your confidence. I was in this position when I had sex with two people who had herpes. I didn't really understand the numbers but I felt like it was safe because they said it in a way that made me trust them.

 

There are two different approaches to having a herpes talk I believe. There's the "sweep it under the couch" approach where you do your bear minimum to let them know you got herpes without embellishments. The other is "the talk" as described in this website where you go into details about statistics etc.

 

TOTALLY agree with you. And that is a HUGE point about disclosure... especially in a casual situation. For me, giving the basic facts including the risk that they are under as far as the numbers of people that don't know they have it (80%) so they DO get that with me, in *some* ways* they are safer with me because I know my status. That can be a HUGE reality check.

 

 

Either way, you are trying to convince the person to roll the dice with you.

 

Nope - not me. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm giving them an option...they can take it or leave it. And *I* am looking for relationship. I have FAR more to lose than you do. If you get turned down, you can just get up, leave, and go back to the bar to try to find another hook-up. Most of the time I've invested a LOT more of my heart into the situation. But I'll never try to "convince" a man to be with me for ANY reason. If they don't want to stay, don't want to have sex, whatever, it SUCKS ... and I know there will be someone else.... unlike you, it may take me months to find another potential man who I will have to disclose to. It is what it is. But I have FAR too much self-worth to ever try to convince a man to be with me.

 

Girl with herpes I hooked up with told me that "there was no way if get it from her". She did her part by disclosing, and the second part of making something a risk into a definite helped convince me to have sex with her.

 

Well, that was a lie. And sadly she will likely pass it on to others...and that doesn't help the stigma at all because then *we* are labeled by those people (the ones that get it, and often any friend who hears how they got it) as liars and irresponsible people :(

 

My personal feeling is that herpes is rampant and easy to get, the stigma is overblown, and anyone who is living the casual sex lifestyle should take full responsibility for getting it just like how I do. I'm not saying that I won't disclose, but I think that's is messed up that we have to do it.

 

Yes, those in the casual lifestyle *should* take full responsibility ... sadly most are soooo poorly educated (as you have later on here mentioned YOU were) that they are going on false/incorrect info. WE know better. THAT is why it's up to us to take the lead and open the "Safe sex" conversation .... AND ... YOU may find that the other person admits something they may be carrying to you too ... it CAN happen ... and it's more likely to happen if you take the lead to open the conversation.

 

I like how a lot of people here are able to make it work for them as an opportunity- that's great, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I don't want to disclose.

 

You think anyone on here WANTS to disclose???? LOL .... Most would rather have all their teeth pulled without anesthetic... BUT, if we try to find the "opportunity" or how we can make things work FOR us, rather than dwelling on how things may go wrong, life gets a LOT simpler :)

 

I'll tell you that I've had girls come to my house without never having met me before and they want met to fuck them raw. How can you not say that they aren't making a choice? You'd have to be insane or straight up mentally deficient to not know what you are getting into.

 

Girls who do that sometimes think that "raw" means you really like them more. Or perhaps they have no self worth and they are almost on a mission to PROVE to themselves that they are dirty by getting an STD (some people really are that messed up!) Or again, they are under the influence of a chemical of some sort. Again, my *personal* belief is when we know better, we should do better.

 

How YOU live your life is up to you. Just remember, you have to live with any consequence of your actions. Sure, I would HATE to give H to someone. I, like you, will take whatever precautions I need to AND/OR my partner and I have agreed on... (although if I was in the casual lifestyle situation I would take responsibility and always take the meds and use condoms). Either way, if I didn't tell someone and they got it from me, I know I'd feel a hell of a lot more guilty about it than if I have made sure they are informed/educated and in a reasonable state of mind to make the informed choice about continuing with me... But that's me.