I'm ALWAYS reading...

[sanngrior]

Cityofangels, please do not misinterpret my comment as a direct insult to you. It was a statement about my general feelings on the subject. You absolutely have the right to make that decision about your sexual health. Its a pity that most of us on this site did not have the option to make that decision, but instead acquired the virus from unknowing or non-disclosing partners.

 

No one ever dates someone else out of compassion for them alone. However, a key part of compassion to me is the ability to truly look at the position someone is in, and treat them how you would like to be treated if you were in the same position, without judging them for any previous mistakes they may or may not have made. The word compassionate literally comes from root meaning "to suffer with." You do have every right to look after your own interests first - but that isn't a very compassionate view. Especially since herpes is by and large an inconvenience and not a serious medical issue (I understand there are rare exceptions), and the risk of contracting it when proper precautions are taken is low.

 

Just like you do not judge someone who has herpes but would choose not to date them, I do not judge someone who refuses to date someone with an STD but would think very seriously about dating them even if I did not have an STD. Herpes, largely because of social stigma, is very scary sounding.

 

Compassion, as I feel the definition of the word is, is literally the most important aspect of a potential partner for me. Before I had HSV1 genitally I broke up with a boyfriend of two years, because he wasn't compassionate towards people that he did not already know very well.

 

I do not think we are in an argument based on conflicting information, I just think we have different values of what we find important in a partner.

[CityofAngels]

Fair enough I c an live with that

[CityofAngels]

I was talking about this the other day with a girl friend of mine whose views are similar to mine. Like me, she wants neither to be married, nor to have children. We are both very focused on our careers and academic pursuits, and having children would necessarily detract from the fulfillment we receive from these pursuits. To someone who adores children, we would likely seem strange, and that person would likely say that we would somehow "see" how "wonderful" children are if we were parents. Perhaps. Yet that does not change the fact that (a) we still do not wish to become parents, because we do not wish to make the sacrifices that raising another human being entails, and (b) having children would necessarily detract from the things that we would still continue to find important after becoming parents. It also does not mean that just because I don't want children now, I should have them anyway because I would "just see" how "wonderful" they are after becoming a father.

 

To me, my sexual health is more important than my relationship with a woman. It just is. Love and relationships are secondary not only to considerations of my sexual health, but also to my future career and my present academic pursuits, as stated. This is one thing that I believe I was not making clearer earlier, and I am happy to share it now in order to provide clarity to my perspective.

[WCSDancer2010]

@CityofAngels

 

I saw an email in my inbox a little while ago, and I thought, "uh oh, the powers that be have finally had enough of me, they're going to kick me off now."

 

LOL ... Nope - you are just fine! We welcome this kind of *respectful* discourse ... I think it is good for people to hear from someone who *chooses* to not date someone with Herpes.

 

If you read my Wingman blog, I specifically state the H will tell you a lot about a person... and that it's the WAY someone may tell you they don't want to risk getting H that tells you if you truly dodged a bullet, or if they are just exercising their right to not knowingly be exposed to the virus in a kind and compassionate way. I don't say that ALL who walk away are jerks by any means.... sadly many just elect to go into "radio silence" and hope that it all goes away, rather than just sitting the H+ person down and being honest about their decision to not continue to date as they realize that, for them, H is a "deal breaker"....

 

I am all for people being free to choose the things they are willing to live with ... some will happily date someone with a disability, or maybe someone with with dwarfism, or an ex-addict while others wouldn't consider dating them. There's nothing wrong with that... you can be compassionate AND loving towards them all, but not want to date them because you are not temperamentally able to deal with the challenges of that pairing. Better to be honest about what you KNOW you want/don't want than to feel guilty and get in a relationship that doesn't work for YOU ;)

 

and @Theo1824

 

This makes me think no one will ever want to date me again after a disclosure. I'm sure most people would agree with cityofangels.

 

Please go back and re-read this and get that @CoA is actually giving us a chance to see inside the mind of someone who *chooses* to not date someone with H ... basically it's a deal breaker for him. BUT, also go to the Success Stories and see how many people are dating H- partners on there. As @CoA said: my experience most people take a different attitude toward these things than I do. Again, I am in no way disparaging my own stance, but I have spoken with friends and partners before about sexually transmitted infections, and they are by and large open to dating someone with an STD. ;)

 

(((HUGS)))

[GeorgiaGirrl]

I agree with @City ofAngels-if I was clean, I wouldn't let myself be with someone in any kind of way knowing they have a contagious, incurable std. And I can relate to the fear of the heart disease story; you Google and find out so much bad stuff like, eye infections, blindness, and going deaf due to herpes! Its so scary

[whitedaisies]

Please don't say "clean". It implies we are all "dirty" and we are definitely not. Herpes doesn't care if u wash or don't.

 

Yes herpes isn't fun, it's really quite a roller coaster but I like to think love triumphs all. I am a hopeless romantic like that. Would I choose to have herpes, nope. If the man I fell madly in love with had it. I would make it work. Too many things happen in life to put so many deal breakers....accidents at work, driving home, heart attacks, mental illness....

 

I think we can narrow ourselves, close our hearts off to people who are truly deserving of love and passion and can give us that gift right back. I would be more afraid to never find love than to get herpes. I got herpes trying to find love and those few months of love were sooo fulfilling and I was just sooo happy. I wouldn't give that feeling up just to not have herpes....I just wouldn't.

 

Food for thought!

 

Xo

[jordenellisson]

City of angels please don't take this personally but if u don't have hsv w r u here? We all at one time were hsv free so in my opinion we r able to understand your view points...however if your std free good for u but speaking for myself I don't feel all that awsome about some of your comments...and with much respect cause I don't know your reasons...q r u here?

[Trying]

@jordenellison I wondered that myself...of course I respect the opinion and was given this without disclosure, but wondered why he bothered signing up if not h+ or contemplating a relationship with someone h+

[WCSDancer2010]

to @jordenellisson and @Trying

 

@CofA was dating someone that he was concerned that he may have got H from initially ... I appreciate his POV actually ... even if it isn't what everyone wants to hear, he's entitled to his opinion and it helps to understand where another is coming from ;)

[inthelight22]

CofA says: To me, my sexual health is more important than my relationship with a woman. It just is. Love and relationships are secondary . . .

 

Honestly, as an H+ woman I found @CityofAngels viewpoint very helpful. I just went through a disclosure with a man whom I dated for six weeks, we had a strong connection and liked each other very much. When I disclosed recently, it was unfortunately a dealbreaker. This was very hard for me due to the connection and intense feelings we shared, and difficult for me to understand because of that. Was it that easy for him to turn his feelings off? But CofA's comments helped me to see that there are differing viewpoints, and even though we may not understand them, they are not wrong at all, just simply different, and right for them. And I have to have respect for that.

[Anonemess]

This reinforces my brain, and depresses me terribly.

[CityofAngels]

@jordenellisson

@Trying

 

Thank you for your question. It is definitely a fair one to ask.

 

As WCSDancer2010 stated, I had been in the beginning stages of a relationship with a woman who eventually disclosed to me that she had herpes. She gave me several facts and figures, and I listened to her with attention and respect. She directed me to this website, and stated that I would be able to speak to others who are h+ if I chose to. She states that while she does not often post in the forum, she "lurks" around here.

 

Although I am knowledgeable about sexually transmitted infections, I decided to visit this website. I read not only the success stories, but other comments and threads from people whose disclosures to their then-partners had not been so successful. While others on this site were always supportive of those whose disclosures had not been successful, once in a while I would read a comment that seemed to impugn the character or motives of the man or woman who, like me, decided not to pursue a relationship with their h+ partner. I thought that was unfair, and I thought it would be helpful and constructive if I offered my opinion and perspective in a mature, respectful way, as I am one of the individuals who ultimately decided not to pursue a relationship with my h+ partner after she disclosed to me.

 

I wanted individuals to see that there are h- people who are just as intelligent, rational, and moral as they are, who have access to the exact same set of facts, data, and evidence that they do, who will occasionally refuse to pursue a relationship with an h+ person because they feel it is a risk that they are not willing to engage. I wanted to point out that the fact that such individuals refused to pursue that relationship was not a reflection on their character, their values, or their rationality and openness to the facts. It was rather a deeply personal decision they they made, like me, based on the totality of facts and evidence they had before them--the same facts and evidence that you have.

 

In doing this, it was my hope that certain individuals would see their partners' refusal to continue the relationships in a new light, and would not feel the need to impugn their character, honesty, integrity, values, or perspective--as long as their refusal was communicated in a way that allowed the h+ individual to preserve his or her dignity and self-respect. As an h- individual I would never dare presume to know what is required for individuals to successfully come to terms with their diagnosis. Yet I believe that if h+ individuals can get to a place where they can meet a refusal of the type I have described with calm acceptance and acknowledgment of the fact that such people exist and have a right to their opinions, without indulging the need to judge their partner's refusal, then they will be that much closer to finding inner peace with themselves and their diagnosis. That is just speculation on my part. Others on this forum can comment on the accuracy or inaccuracy of that sentiment.

 

[FLNewH]

@CityofAngels Although it is a bit disheartening for someone in my place (newly diagnosed and had no idea I had this) to hear that, in some respects, our pool of potential mates may be reduced due to this virus (we all know how hard it is to find a quality mate), it is refreshing that you actually took the time to research and learn before making a decision. At no point did I ever read in your comments that we are bad people or disgusting or gross or not worthy of love - and I thank you for that. At least you are taking the time to try and learn about our emotions. Those that do judge us do not realize that their judgments of us are exactly what goes through our own minds when we are diagnosed. We feel gross, we feel unworthy, we get thrown into a depression. I feel that I am lucky because, after only two weeks of being diagnosed, I am handling the emotions that come with this virus fairly well whereas I see others on here that have had this diagnosis part of their life for months or years and still haven't come to terms with it.

 

My ex-boyfriend never even took the time to come to this site or read my text messages or answer my phone calls before making his decision. He just dropped me. At least you gave her the respect of learning the facts before making a decision. To be honest, if I would have been asked the question "Would you date someone with herpes?" prior to a couple weeks ago, I would not have hesitated to say "Hell to the No!". But, now that I am in a different circumstance, my answer would obviously be "Sure, why not?" And to be even more honest, even today, if someone asked me if I would date someone with HIV, I would still say no. Not because I am uninformed, but because I choose to NOT get involved with someone who has a virus that can kill and there is potential to pass it on to me. Believe me, the day my doctor told me I had lesions and suggested I get HSV and HIV tests, I was researching the hell out of those sites. So, we all have our deal-breakers.

 

I think you staying in this forum is really a benefit to all of us, including you. People that are H- are ignorant to the information. I don't mean that in a bad way. We are all ignorant of things we don't know (obviously). So, by having H- folks on these forums, at least there is information being shared with them and hopefully a better understanding of what us H+ people are going through. And, we get the perspective of someone who isn't judging, but just choosing to not take the risk - and that is 100% OK. Hopefully you can also help us some day by sticking up for us if you ever hear someone being less than kind about people in our situation :-)

[CityofAngels]

@FLNewH

 

A fine post, thank you for your comments.

 

It is true, I in no way judge those who have HSV because I know how unfortunately easy it is to contract this condition (I don't even think it's worthy of the name "disease"; I just call it a "condition"). I am proud to say that, when my former partner disclosed her HSV diagnosis to me, and when I informed her of my intention not to continue the relationship, I treated her with complete dignity and respect. I would never demean anybody with herpes nor presume to know and judge the circumstances under which they contracted this condition.

 

The truth is, FLNewH, there are so many people out there that are already choosing not to be with us for so many reasons that have nothing to do with us. People can and will refuse to date me for a variety of reasons, many of which I am not able to control. For example, many women would choose to date me because I am a man, and they are lesbian. That excludes whole swaths of the female population from my pool of potential partners. Many people of different backgrounds would not choose to date me because I am an atheist; because I'm a "nerd"; because I am Caucasian, and not of a different skin tone. These are things that cannot be helped. Yet it is curious that people are most often able to accept that others will not date them because of their gender, or fashion sense, or eye color, without asking what is "wrong" with their eye color or gender, or without feeling that it is "wrong." I for one would never feel there is something "wrong" with my gender (male) simply because a woman I though strikingly beautiful declined to date me because she likes men with blue eyes, not brown, or because she likes men with a very petite frame, not ones with a larger frame. Yet when something like herpes is at issue, many people feel that those who would not date them because of herpes see that as something "wrong," rather than an expression of a subjective and personal preference. Granted, herpes is not like one's fashion sense or eye color. While I fully understand that nobody wants herpes and everybody would choose not to have it, I think people tend to see the fault as lying with themselves when someone refuses to go out when them on account of herpes, rather than a subjective and individual expression of the threshold of diversity of one's characteristics that a person can accommodate based on *his* or *her* capacities. I think more often than not, people's disappointment in perceived rejection arises because many feel, quite wrongly, that they are "dirty" or "unclean" because of herpes, and that their prospective partner sees them that way as well. So in a significant sense people's reactions to perceived rejection involves a projection of the underlying emotional calculus they bring to that experience, and does not necessarily reflect what is actually going on when someone declines to pursue a relationship with an h+ partner. Perhaps I am way off the mark here, and if so, please do tell me that I am. But that is my initial thought, at least.

[WCSDancer2010]

I just have one thing to say:

 

I am SOOOOOO loving this conversation AND the wonderful, MATURE way that everyone is expressing themselves.....

 

Carry on!

[WCSDancer2010]

@Anonemess

 

Just to address your comment:

 

Don't let this conversation depress you. *Try* to see it as helping you to understand the POV of someone who would CHOOSE to not take the risk of getting Herpes. AND, know that, judging on the ratio of Succeccful:Unsuccessful disclosure stories on here, @CoA is actually in the minority in his preference.... I would say we have about 4 Success Stories for every "failed" attempt ... and many of those failures come back later to say they later realized they dodged a bullet because of the way the person acted after the disclosure ;)

 

(((HUGS)))

[Anonemess]

I wouldn't date me. Not with herpes. Something curable yes. Not this.

[inthelight22]

I have a question for @CityofAngels: I understand that your sexual health is very important to you -- nothing wrong with that at all -- and that you have ceased a relationship with a woman due to her H+ status. I may have missed this in the string, but have you been tested for H? And equally important, for every future partner, will you inquire about their H status and ask them if they've been tested (because the majority don't know they have it) and if they haven't will you require them to be tested so you can know for sure that you're not at risk? I am not trying to put you on the spot, but I am very interested in your viewpoint as I'm sure everyone is who has faced rejection by someone who does not want to risk getting it.

[WCSDancer2010]

@Anonemess

 

Well, two things ... there ARE STD dating sites with people like yourself who choose to only date someone with the same STD that they have. Postitive Singles and H Date are 2 decent ones.

 

BUT

 

Also, just because YOU wouldn't date you, doesn't mean someone else won't ... so if you find a guy who makes it really clear that he sees you for the beautiful person that you are, then GIVE HIM A CHANCE... please! Don't deny him or yourself that once-in-a-lifetime chance of finding that person who just plain gets YOU because of a crappy assed virus... ok? He'll be a big boy who can make his own choice about things once you disclose ... LET HIM. You are not his Mama .... ;)

 

(((HUGS)))

[CityofAngels]

@inthelight22

 

Thank you for your question. It is my policy to get tested with every new partner before engaging in physical intimacy. I get tested, and yes, I ask the doctor to include a herpes blood test, and she gets tested, and then we exchange paperwork. To date, not one individual has turned me down because of my insistence on getting tested. Also, I get tested 4-6 months after the end of every relationship, just to be extra cautious. If I happen to begin seeing someone new within that 4-6 month time frame, I recommend we wait however long it takes, usually not more than six weeks, before becoming intimate. If a woman refuses to get tested with me-for whatever reason-then I do not continue to date her.

[inthelight22]

Thank you @CityofAngels, I appreciate your answer and am glad to see that you walk the talk. Really, I wonder if those that run or even walk for the hills when they hear the word herpes are even doing half of what you're doing, if they are truly concerned about the risk. I wonder that if someone doesn't tell them they have this, they just assume they don't. Not the informed assumption to make as we all know on this board. Thanks again, you've really helped increase my understanding with your posts.