Re-Branding Herpes

[Sil88]

^ Yes @optimist

[hippyherpy]

@hippyherpy - I don't think HSV1 gets a pass. I think there is a significantly greater stigma attached to GENITAL HERPES whether caused by HSV1 or HSV2. I think oral herpes gets a pass because it is so pervasive, it is not associated with a sex act, and there is no way to maintain the illusion of control if one accepts that oral HSV1 is also capable of causing genital herpes through oral sex, even when symptoms are not present.

 

As for one being more contagious than the other, there are so many factors to consider. HSV1 spreads more easily to a variety of places but more people have existing immunity to HSV1. Genital HSV2 sheds asymptomatically at almost twice the frequency of oral HSV1, but greater doses of antivirals are required to suppress oral HSV1. And then there are other risk factors like penises (better at transmission) and other variables like whether or not someone is circumcised. At some point, discussing which is the better herpes to have feels like I've entered the story of The Sneetches with the stars on their bellies. But I agree it's frustrating that genital herpes carries a stigma that doesn't apply to oral herpes.

 

I'm talking about one you have to disclose and the other you don't. That's fucked. They got to make it the same. I disclose, but I don't want to if the type 1 people don't have to. The reasoning behind that fact doesn't make sense to me.

[optimist]

@hippyherpy As far as I can tell, those who are expected (by much of society) to disclose are those who have been positively diagnosed with genital herpes. This typically includes the following people: 1) people with GENITAL symptoms who sought treatment and were positively identified as having HSV1, HSV2 or both, and 2) asymptomatic people who tested positive for HSV2 (because it is assumed the location is genital). Perhaps it also includes people who get very frequent cold sore outbreaks (a minority of HSV1 oral cases) because the risk of transmission of herpes to the genitals is significantly higher during oral outbreaks. The 88% of people unaware of their HSV2+ status are not expected to disclose because they don't know and because most people assume you'd know if you have herpes. The people who had positive HSV1 results but no genital symptoms are not expected to disclose because it's not possible to know where the infection is or it is assumed to be oral. The people who had one cold sore twenty years ago or get one cold sore per year are not expected to disclose because it is assumed to be a fairly typical and normal part of being human and nothing to be alarmed about.

 

I don't think expectation of disclosure is based on HSV TYPE but rather location, even though oral herpes can be transmitted to the genitals. IMHO, I think this is an unfortunate byproduct of there being no reasonable workaround to prevent people from passing oral HSV1 through normal affection combined with an attempt to scare sexually active young people about the dangers of sexual intercourse. I don't think the medical community is behind it. If anything, they are generally very "meh" about both types of herpes and more focused on treating symptoms than preventing transmission. Also, they don't uniformly advocate disclosure when counseling patients. I think the expectation of disclosure and illogical nature of disclosing one type and not another is societal and rooted in stigma and misinformation. Just my two cents.

 

Having said all that, I do feel an obligation to disclose my known status because the risk is not nonexistent and the "what ifs" are too much for me. I know that it will sometimes be a deal breaker and it is frustrating to me that the deal breaker element is mostly (though not entirely) based on stigma and an inability to weigh known risk against unknown risk in a population largely unaware of their status, but I've dealt with other such things in life and have come through just fine. I'm just adding this to the pile of things that makes me imperfect. We're all imperfect. It's part of being human.

[hippyherpy]

Yeah but you are more likely to get HSV1 from a blow job (their mouth, your genitals), than you are likely to get it going to genital to genital for HSV1. In this sense people with GHSV1 are less likely to give their partners GHsv1 than the person with oral HSV1 who is giving head.

 

That's messed up right there that the genital HSV1 should had to disclose while the oral doesn't.

 

I think that if everyone who had oral HSV1 had to disclose like the people with genital

herpes, that would go far towards reducing the stigma all around about herpes.

[hippyherpy]

Herpes has been with us for a long long time- even thousands of years more than we previously thought.

 

http://m.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/humans-infected-neanderthals-herpes-tuberculosis-article-1.2597974

 

 

[optimist]

I think that if everyone who had oral HSV1 had to disclose like the people with genital herpes, that would go far towards reducing the stigma all around about herpes.

 

@hippyherpy - I agree it could reduce the stigma but I believe it would first need to become a routine part of STI testing. Most people test only because they have bothersome GENITAL symptoms, so the pool of people testing positive for HSV1 with no genital symptoms is very thin. And even those people (who have no genital symptoms but test positive for HSV1) can't know if the location of their infection is oral or genital which makes meaningful disclosure difficult.

 

 

[optimist]

@hippyherpy - I'm not certain about this, but I think there was a study that brought greater attention to rates of asymptomatic shedding of both oral and genital herpes and at that point more emphasis was placed on disclosing that risk of transmission is not limited to active outbreaks. However, because it is seen as less manageable to avoid asymptomatic oral transmission (daily affection, etc.), more attention was given to counseling patients about reducing asymptomatic genital-to-genital transmission as that's seen as more optional and manageable. IMHO, an unfortunate byproduct of this is that there is a public perception that asymptomatic oral-genital transmission is very rare or even non-existent while asymptomatic genital-genital transmission is exceedingly common. It makes it difficult for people to put the true risk in perspective and broadens the gulf in perception between oral herpes and genital herpes.

[Scared16]

I think that a big part of the stigma comes from People that were diagnosed with HSV. This is new to me, and just trying to educate myself and reading things of the Internet was terrifying. There is far more descriptions from people with HSV saying that HSV is ruining their lives, that they are suffering, in pain ... There was only a few things that I found that said, it is not a big deal. Also the advertisements for "cures" are just crazy ... And there is so many of them ... The wording in them is chosen in a way to make anybody think that once you have it, you are in constant pain and your privates turn into peeling crust. They make you feel desperate. And the media ... Always says highly contagious, herpes sufferers, painful ulcers ... I was hyperventilating just reading this crap ... I think the biggest emotional impact was reading testimonials of people that actually have HSV though ...

[optimist]

@Scared16 - I appreciate your insight. I think part of why you've seen this is because people are educated to believe everyone who contracts herpes will have ongoing, widespread and painful ulcers. This is absolutely true for a minority of people, just as it is true for a minority of people who contract oral herpes. Secondly, because the testing model is based on treating symptoms, not reducing asymptomatic transmission, it follows that most of those diagnosed have experienced painful symptoms. Most of those who are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms (the majority of people with HSV) are unaware of their positive status and therefore do not post about it. Finally, because those newly diagnosed are as aware of the stigma as anyone else, they are processing both the physical pain and the impact of the stigma. That's a lot to process.

 

I shouldn't speak for everyone, but my own experience was that it took me more than two months to get over the stigma enough to rationally assess my situation and that was in the absence of symptoms. There were days when I felt suicidal, based solely on my fear of how my future would be negatively influenced by the stigma of carrying the herpes virus. But as happens with most people who receive this diagnosis, those extreme emotions eventually passed.

[janedoe]

@Scared16 My asymptomatic giver told me that he thought herpes blisters would look like puss filled sores oozing all the time. The emotional part that he is going through was hard to watch too. Thank you google images I guess :) I explained to him that mine looked exactly like razor burns and just itched for like a week and he said " well, I have them all the time, they are nothing, so I guess, this is not a big deal ". What I am saying is that Google and inadequate information almost made him suicidal, imagine the impact that they have on public now and if all the asymptomatic people were diagnosed overnight. Those scare tactics aren't helping anyone. I am not even reading those sites anymore. Don't read them.

[hippyherpy]

The Virus Formerly Known as Herpes

[WCSDancer2010]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now THAT was funny!

 

Quick input about the increase in H1 transmission to genitals:

 

3 causes:

 

1) 80% of carriers are clueless that they have it

 

2) Ignorance: Those that know they have cold sores often have no idea it can be spread to the genitals, especially between OB's

 

3) MASSIVE increase in oral sex rates, esp among the Youth who have been led to believe (in their so-called sex education) that "abstinence" is safe.... and they don't see Oral Sex as "Sex" ... and likely they are not being given the info about the fact that 60% of them are likely carrying the virus already and 80% of them don't know it and they should get tested.

 

And I hear from women/girls on a pretty regular basis that they gave the new guy they started dating last week oral (whether the act was reciprocated or not) because they think that's how they keep the guys interested. It's a sad reflection on our society that girls/women still believe that crap.... but it's true.

 

So that right there accounts for increased H1 genital transmission as well as the issue of most people not disclosing HSV1 oral .....

 

The bottom line is this friggin country has to get out of the Puritan mentality about sex and start having FRANK conversations about sex, STD's, Pregnancy, and anything else to do with the subject. Until then, things won't change much if at all...

[hippyherpy]

You forgot 5)

 

Tinder.

 

Last two girls I had sex came straight from Tinder to my house for sex.

[Sil88]

So do you disclose before they make the journey?

[hippyherpy]

Sometimes, and I've have a a few rejections that way, but usually I disclose when sex seems immenent.

[optimist]

I will add some additional possibilities regarding the perception that GHSV1 rates are increasing.

 

- Decline in rate of oral HSV1 infections in childhood, diminishing partial immunity to GHSV1

- Decline in circumcision rates, diminishing partial immunity to GHSV1

- Improved ability of tests to distinguish type

- Increased awareness through recent research that a high proportion of genital herpes cases are caused by HSV1, leading to more type testing instead of an assumption that cold sores = HSV1, genital herpes = HSV2.

- Increased awareness through recent research that HSV can spread asymptomatically, leading to awareness that HSV1 can spread from mouth to genitals in cases in which there is no history of cold sores.

 

[MMissouri]

@optimist -So males that are not circumcised are at greater risk. Why is this? I can see having a greater risk of a bacterial type std but viral? I thought that things were suppose to be more lubricated and have less friction with he extra skin (Completely inexperienced with uncircumcised males). Now I'm curious- how many of our males here are circumcised vs not?

[optimist]

@MMissouri - I would assume there are two reasons foreskin is more susceptible. First, because mucus membranes are generally more susceptible to infection. Second, because I assume the skin would be more prone to micro-tearing. This is also why vaginas and anuses are more susceptible to infection, especially when combined with sexually activity such as intercourse that can cause micro-tearing.

 

I have no position on circumcision but here's a link to a relevant research study: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0802556?siteid=nejm&keytype=ref&ijkey=RbvFxmaQQyTs.&

 

Another possibility I didn't mention earlier is that I think there is increased awareness that most women do not orgasm during intercourse and perhaps this has lead to an increase in oral sex with the goal of mutual pleasure. If so, I think that's a good thing. I also appreciate some young people choosing to engage in oral sex as an alternative to intercourse because there is no risk of pregnancy. That is not to say people should not be educated about the risk of STI transmission through oral sex, but I think there may be positive aspects of an increase in oral sex rates. Just my opinion.

[Sil88]

Think optimist is right as usual, especially on the micro-tearing point. I'm uncircumsised, but my OBs occur(red) far away from that area, so I'm not sure that was the 'point of entry'.

[MMissouri]

@optimist. Thanks for the info. I guess I always assumed since they were intact they were in a better position than those that were not. Interesting.

 

The guy I recently disclosed to (that kinda ghosted, he contacts me occasionally but nothing like before) is not circumcised. I'm kinda relieved he didn't go for it now. I wasn't aware his risk would be higher, but he probably is.

 

@Sil88 Thanks for sharing. I wouldn't never have thought of tearing, I assumed more skin meant more flexibility. Learn something new everyday ;)

[hippyherpy]

The should change it to "helpes"

 

little helpers.

[blistersistersUNITE]

@hippyherpy you are hilarious and I'd definitely have sex with you despite your status. Rock on dude. Confidence is everything.