optimist

@Gimmehope The chance of passing it on under the circumstances you describe is 2% over a year of regular sexual activity. Adding condoms would reduce the risk to 1%. If you do pass it on, the odds that he will develop symptoms is somewhere in the 10-20% range. I think it's important to keep in mind that you are not talking about risk vs. no risk. It's more like very small risk vs. very, very small risk. I'm relatively new to this but my plan is to use condoms outside of monogamous relationships and allow the guy to make that choice within a monogamous relationship.

@hippyherpy - I don't say the exact same thing every time but I can provide an example. If the text conversation moves into sexual territory and I feel like it's leading to an expectation that there is mutual sexual interest, I ask the person how they approach safe sex. (Even before I knew I was HSV+, I would feel guys about about condoms in this way because I've found that a lot of younger guys rely more on frequent testing and I want to be clear that I expect to use condoms.) If they don't mention testing, I'll ask if they've been tested recently. I will then tell them my own expectations about condoms and my own testing history, including HSV. I try to keep the HSV info fairly brief, telling them how it affects me, transmission risk (I don't go into percentages, just that a very small risk does exist), that I take antivirals to reduce risk of transmission. I tell them I don't want to bombard them with info but would be happy to answer any questions they may have. I tell them they're welcome to take some time to process what I've told them. I let them steer the convo from there. One really cool thing I've discovered in doing this is that the other person will typically respond by disclosing something they would not have otherwise disclosed. Full disclosure: Maybe this approach makes more sense in a case like mine where I'm actively avoiding one-nighters and only really interested in ongoing FWB situations or traditional dating. It sounds like you're usually thinking strictly of that evening. Those days are long gone for me. :)

@hippyherpy - You just never know. My least successful disclosure was in person and my most successful disclosures have been via text. I think there's something about giving a guy time and space to think about it, no pressure, that seems to help. And I feel better knowing the guy has put thought into it before acting. Of course, it isn't all about the method of disclosure anyway. Some people will have a strong opinion one way or the other regardless of how you approach it.

@JingleBelle Being in limbo is so hard, regardless of why. I'm also an overthinker and those moments of feeling in limbo are the times when I'm vulnerable to sabotaging a situation because I'm just so uncomfortable. When I do that, I typically end up regretting it, wishing I'd just let things play out more naturally. If you relate to that, I would say to try your best to hold back on forcing things and let him address this in his own time (within reason, of course) or even just move on without further discussion about it if he gives you signals that he wants to continue dating. You've done your part in disclosing to him. Just my opinion. Also, what you said here: "That relationship didn't work out but I am glad I got to experience that moment of 100% acceptance." I've had this experience and it's so powerful. I hope to be able to do that for someone else in some way. It's such a gift.

@JB33 - For what it's worth, it's very common to not know when one contracted the virus. In fact, most people with the virus go their entire lives without ever knowing they have it. Even if they have symptoms, they may ascribe those symptoms to something else like jock itch or a yeast infection. Also, the majority of people who transmit the virus to others don't know they have it, so in those cases, it's not a matter of whether the person was trustworthy, they were just ignorant of their status, as are most people carrying the virus. I'll give you an example that may be meaningful to you. Given your age, there's something like an 80% chance you carry HSV1 in your mouth. This means that anytime you perform oral sex on a woman who is not already genitally infected with HSV1 or HSV2, there is a very small risk you will transmit genital herpes to her in the form of HSV1. This is true even if you've never had a single cold sore or obvious symptom of HSV1. And if this happened, it would not (IMO) be a result of you being untrustworthy.

@ele3 I have no idea how to advise you because I'm new at this, but I can share my own experience and an opinion. So far, my most successful disclosures have had the following elements: set a tone that is thoughtful but not dramatic, allowed time for the person to process the information in whatever way works for them. But there's also an element that just can't be predicted, and that's about how that other person assesses risk. I've reached a point now where it's my expectation that most people will be okay with it but some people will not, and I've given up trying to predict the outcome in advance because so far it has been entirely unpredictable. I've had someone tell me they were never happier than when they were with me but they just can't get over the risk thing. I've had someone respond in the most accepting way possible during a text exchange before we ever even met in person and in regard to the prospect of a very casual NSA fling. And I've had someone go silent, only to come around later. I kind of get what your mom is saying about potentially making that night heavy when you only have that one night. Personally, I would tell him in advance of that visit, rather than waiting until you two get emotionally closer, and I definitely wouldn't wait until you two start making major life decisions like moving because it *is* a dealbreaker for some people, regardless of how emotionally attached they've become. Just my two cents.

@JB33 I'm so glad to hear this is where your thoughts have taken you. I recently had a very positive experience disclosing to someone and it really influenced how I perceive them, too. I'm sure the effort you are making to educate yourself and your thoughtful and caring approach will be reassuring to her and serve to strengthen your mutual comfort with both the physical and emotional aspects of your relationship.

@Seeker1960 Maybe I missed something here, but if your wife has oral HSV1, and you recently acquired GHSV1, is it not highly possible you contracted it from your wife? Or have you not been having oral-genital sexual contact?

@JB33 - I think that's a very common fear. But I will remind you that whether you are sexually active with her or someone else, unless they have very recently specifically tested for HSV (which is typically not included in STD testing panels) and they are certain they are negative, there is some level of risk. I didn't find out I was positive until the age of 47 and I have no idea how long I've had it. It's possible I've had it for decades. I also didn't understand until I was 47 that I'd been unknowingly taking the risk of contracting genital herpes all the time for decades. Anytime someone with oral HSV1 (most adults) performed oral sex on me, I was taking a risk of contracting genital herpes, and probably a fair amount of the time I had intercourse, I was risking contracting HSV2, at least considerably more often than I realized, until I contracted it myself and then unknowingly began exposing others. I didn't know how common HSV is, how often it is asymptomatic, how condoms only partially protect from transmission. If I'd known all that, maybe I would've been a little more conservative about the number of partners I've had. Then again, I've read that 20% of women with 2-4 lifetime partners have HSV2, so there are no guarantees. It is very common. Having said all that, I think your decision to hold off on sex until you are both sure is a wise choice.

@JB33 I think it's great that you are here seeking information. I'd like to add a few points to what has been said already. It sounds like you are evaluating your risk of contracting HSV2 in terms of being exposed vs. not being exposed. As @WCSDancer2010 stated, most people with HSV2 don't know they have it. For instance, roughly half of single women in my age group (late 40s) have it and an additional unknown percentage have genital herpes caused by HSV1 which is usually transmitted via oral sex from the mouth of someone who doesn't know they have HSV1. So from my perspective, you are not choosing whether or not you will expose yourself to HSV2, you are choosing whether or not you will knowingly expose yourself. I do take antivirals because I want to do everything possible to reduce risk of transmission, but if she is unable or unwilling to do so, you'll want to keep in mind that the difference in transmission risk is relatively minor when talking about female to male transmission. If you're using condoms and avoid outbreaks (if she gets outbreaks), antivirals cut the risk from 2% per year to 1% per year. If you are not using condoms, the risk is 4% per year without antivirals, 2% with antivirals. I don't know how old you are, but about 25% of men in my age group have HSV2, but only about 12% of those who have it are aware of their status. The rest either have no symptoms or their symptoms are so mild they are not recognized as related to HSV2. You may want to consider the possibility that you might already have it. And yes, many doctors really tell people it is not necessary to disclose in the absence of outbreaks, but the fact is that most people don't have the information necessary to disclose because they don't know they have it. HSV is so pervasive (http://projectaccept.org/who-gets-hsv/) but relatively few know they have it. In my age group, 94% of people have either HSV1, HSV2 or both and yet I've only had two people EVER disclose to me (and one of them only disclosed his oral HSV1 because I disclosed my HSV2).

@Katidid - Some test result formats set a high end at >5. Both my tests (I took a second test to confirm) came back as ">5" which just meant the result was greater than 5 and therefore could be presumed to be an unequivocal positive result. Maybe it was 5.1, maybe it was 40, who knows, but greater than 5 is outside of the range that is questionable.

@dreamer - As @WCSDancer2010 stated, most adults have HSV1 orally and many have no idea because they don't associate cold sores with herpes or because they are asymptomatic and do not get cold sores. Even though herpes is exponentially more contagious during outbreaks, the sheer number of HSV+ people and the nature of asymptomatic shedding results in most transmissions occurring when no symptoms are present. Having said all that, I think it's normal for you to feel angry right now. It's a necessary part of grieving and adjusting to this news. Hopefully your anger will dissipate in time as you move through this process. @WCSDancer2010 - It's my understanding that at least 50% of unpartnered women have HSV2 by age 50. I believe those who have genital herpes as a result of HSV1 would be on top of the 50% (or more) with HSV2.

@aep001 - I think what you're seeing is likely more related to the fact that more women post on this site in general, about a variety of topics. I have not noticed a pattern that suggests women are less likely to be accepting, even though their risk of contracting the virus is greater than a man's risk.

Hello, @Gemini26! I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I'll tell you what has helped me, with special attention to a couple areas I see we have in common. I was also very down and teary after diagnosis which coincided with a breakup. I did talk to close friends and joined this forum. I made an effort to walk out in the sunshine and fresh air as much as possible. I put together a playlist of upbeat music, plugged in my earbuds and walked outside as much as possible. That helped lift my mood. Like you, I thought I was going to have to give up online dating or at least switch to a dating site that had less of a reputation for hookups. After taking a break for a while, I did try a site more known for traditional dating and it was kind of a disaster. The one guy I went out with was more immediate sex oriented than most of the guys on the hookup-y site. It didn't go anywhere physical so I never disclosed to him. In the meantime, a couple close male friends shared that they personally would not be bothered by my status and I had a great talk with a single and sexually adventurous HSV+ woman who told me exactly how she discloses and reassured me that it is usually not a big deal and also hasn't resulted in her sex partners having sex with her in an anxious manner. In her experience, most guys are accepting, though some are not, and most choose to ditch condoms when things get serious and monogamous. She said older (middle aged) guys tend to already have dealt with this in previous relationships or have it themselves. All of this was encouraging to me. A turning point for me was in recognizing that perhaps half of new genital herpes cases are caused by HSV1 via oral sex. This was significant to me because it helped me put transmission risk into perspective. Most adults have HSV1, many have HSV2, so we are taking that risk all the time in having sex. Personally, I've never let a fear of contracting herpes get in the way of kissing or receiving unprotected oral sex. So then why was I having so much anxiety about possibly transmitting this to others through intercourse? I decided to allow people to make that choice for themselves, just as I do. I disclose my status, take antivirals and ask my partners to use condoms (though I would allow them to make this choice for themselves in a monogamous relationship). I'm doing what I can to be responsible. They can choose what risks are acceptable to them. This was a shift from how I initially approached things, basically encouraging people to save themselves from me. You can imagine that attitude did not yield very satisfying results. I pretty much was just setting people free so they could take risks with others of unknown status instead of me. When I went back to the site more known for hookups, I had a super successful disclosure experience. The guy is in his 20s, so I was concerned he might not have much prior experience with HSV, but his reaction could not have been more reassuring. Because he had previously tested positive for HSV1 (in his case, oral), he was educated about the pervasiveness of HSV and how it is transmitted. He told me he was still very attracted to me, wasn't at all afraid, and very much wanted to move forward. It isn't necessarily a love match but we do have a nice connection and we've been seeing each other since then and HSV has not been an issue at all. That experience really helped build my confidence. You're welcome to message me if you'd like to chat more about any of these topics. I would be happy to chat with you. Hang in there! What you're going through right now is normal and probably even necessary from an emotional standpoint. You are grieving. That part will pass. And then you will choose how to approach things moving forward. My own approach has changed a few times just in these months since diagnosis. It's an interesting period of growth. I did cry all the time for the first 10 weeks or so. Now I rarely have a bad day. :)

@Shetalkstoangels You might want to check out this link to get a sense of how much of the population is HSV+ http://projectaccept.org/who-gets-hsv/. You may find it reassuring to find you are in the majority, not the minority.

Please be aware that coconut oil can break down the integrity of a latex condom, so if you use latex condoms, coconut oil is not the best lube choice.

@hippyherpy I think most people do feel an obligation to disclose HPV but most people don't know they are infected. IMHO, the bigger discrepancy is that many people with known GHSV1 feel an obligation to disclose their positive status while many with known oral HSV1 do not, even though research suggests an uninfected sex partner is at greater risk of genital infection from the person with oral HSV1.

@hippyherpy - I believe HPV is primarily spread through intercourse and oral sex. There is some question as to whether it might be spread through kissing. Here's a relevant link: https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/how-common-is-hpv-in-the-mouth-and-can-you-get-it-by-kissing/ Some interesting statements at that link include: - HPV is ubiquitous in the genital tract. If you are a woman and you are sexually active there is a 70% chance you will have been infected by the age of 22 - We know oral sex is a risk factor for HPV-related head and neck cancers. If you have had oral sex with 6 or more partners your risk of head and neck cancer increases 8-fold. I don't want to derail this thread getting into a big discussion about HPV but wanted to answer your question. As with HSV, most people with HPV (most infected women and almost all infected men) are unaware they are infected, so it isn't necessarily a case of them choosing not to disclose. In my opinion, it should be an assumed risk with casual sex, given the prevalence, the fact that condoms only minimize risk, and the relatively small percentage of infected people who are aware of their positive status. Same goes for oral HSV1. The majority of adults have it, don't know they have it, and are capable of transmitting it to a partner's mouth or genitals.

@hippyherpy - For men, the bigger risk of HPV is head and neck cancer. At any given time, it is believed 10% of men and 4% of women between the ages of 14 and 69 are infected orally with HPV, and 1% of those infections are caused by a higher risk cancer causing type of HPV. The good news is that most people clear their HPV infections within 2 years. The bad news is that there are no symptoms and no early detection screenings (like pap smears) to check for this cancer causing HPV because the typical location (crypts of the tonsils) makes it inaccessible for screening.

@BrazilGuy - I have to believe there is some cross immunity given the relatively low proportion of HSV2+ people co-infected with HSV1, even though HSV1 is typically contracted in youth while HSV2 is typically contracted in teen and adult years. Unless some people are just more predisposed to contracting one or the other, I see no other way those numbers can make sense than there being some type of cross-immunity. I see the statistic of 40% reduction is from a study called "Mertz, Annals of Internal Medicine,1992" (it is referenced here: http://www.herpes.com/hsv1-2.html) but I've also read that various studies have yielded conflicting results. Would be nice to have more consistent data.

@2Legit2Quit - I've read that but I can't reconcile the numbers given the relatively low percentage of HSV2+ people who are HSV1+ and that fact that HSV1 is typically acquired at high rates at younger ages than HSV2. It doesn't make sense to me that partial immunity to HSV1 would begin only when one contracts HSV2 and not the the other way around. If only 40% of HSV2+ people have HSV1, and HSV1 is much more often acquired at a younger age than HSV2, I don't see how these numbers can work out without there being some partial immunity to HSV2 when one is infected with HSV1 in youth. Unless perhaps some people are more naturally prone to contracting HSV1 while others are more naturally prone to contracting HSV2. I would love to understand more about this.

Enjoy your youth while it lasts, @hippyherpy! :)

@Whyme77 - I'm sorry to hear of your diagnosis. I understand why you are feeling protective of your baby. I hope you will find it reassuring to know that 25-30% of pregnant women have genital herpes and the vast majority do not know it. http://www.ashasexualhealth.org/stdsstis/herpes/herpes-and-pregnancy/

@WCSDancer2010 - I know a woman in the retiree age range who tells me literally all of her female friends are positive. I believe it. If 50% of single women (including those who were long married) are HSV2+ by age 50, of course that percentage will continue rising with age because there is no cure and the male partner pool is increasingly infected, as well.

@Hawhaw - I was dating someone when I was diagnosed and sort of pushed them away because I felt protective of them. I was able to understand the risk of transmission was small but I was unable to factor in the relative risk. The stigma was clouding my judgment so I was unable to think critically and recognize that in letting him go, I was not protecting him from risk, I was sending him out to find new partners, many of whom will be HSV+. In time, maybe 10 weeks, I was able to think about things more logically and decided I would never again make someone's choice for them. Have you considered telling him that you know he is processing a lot and that you would like to remain close to him through this process, even if it means dialing back the physical for a bit if he is too uncomfortable to go there right now?