mr_hopp

First off, welcome to the site. Second off, yay for giddiness! I don't think it seems just crazy AT ALL. I think it's AWESOME that you're feeling all this! Sounds like nothing but goodness from where I'm sitting. I'm excited just considering what that might feel like for you. Like being a teenager all over again, I imagine. ;) And let me get this straight ... seems like you'd still rather walk away from an exciting and promising relationship (one that makes you giddy even considering it, no less) than to have the herpes talk? Well as scary as you can make that talk seem, it just doesn't seem fair that you should pre-reject yourself like that. Who are you to say that he doesn't want to go deeper into a relationship with you regardless of what you have? What if who you are is more important? Where are you getting that information from? Why are you treating yourself as not enough like that? Why I aughta ... (hug you). ;) Seriously, if you focus on what is making you so giddy about this relationship and less on the part that makes you want to walk away, then herpes disclosure turns out being a way to bring a couple closer, to build trust, to open up and be transparent, vulnerable. Shift your perspective to that part of you that KNOWS you're worth it instead of that part of you that seems to have gotten convinced that your own self-worth is tied to whether herpes is accepted or not. Have you read the e-book yet? If not, I suggest you download it now and read it. All this stuff and more is explained in it. http://eepurl.com/b4IPP I'm glad you're not done with men (yet). Sounds like there's something promising on the horizon for you. And I'm going to be the self-appointed cheerleader for your giddiness even when you might want to walk. Got it? Cool. ;)

Ah, Carlos, the elusive forum swooper. (And he's off again!) Until next time, bro! Thanks for the info (and the love).

Was great to talk with you today, bro. Sounds like she's a keeper (and you, too). I'm excited to hear how the talk goes! Keep us posted! Looking forward to hearing what our other members say to your question. :) And looking forward to hearing about what may SEEM like a talk to dread turns out being an opportunity to bring the relationship to a deeper, trusting and authentic level.

Hey bro! Welcome back! We've missed you! 😉 First things first, so glad to hear that you have an opportunity to disclose! Must be one special woman. 🙂 Second things second, please STOP calling herpes an ugly, disgusting disease! The more you call it that, the more you'll believe that to be true. I have the same thing you have and I'll tell you in a heartbeat that what I have isn't an ugly, disgusting disease. It's a simple skin condition that I occasionally deal with. The power of the words we use shapes our experience of our life. That's huge to get. Here's an article on the power of words: http://herpeslife.com/herpes-wordplay-the-power-of-words/ It's up to you how you choose to experience herpes, bro. Your relationship to yourself and to what herpes means to you is crucial. And to a very large degree, when you disclose to her, she will experience it how you present it. Have you read my "positive guide to herpes disclosure" e-book yet? If not, jump on it: http://eepurl.com/b4IPP ... Reading those 12 pages is a great start to shift your negative association with this virus so you can have a conversation without all that shame and negativity talk! And it's great that you have such an exciting outlook on the relationship! Focus on that potential excitement instead of the "ugly disgusting" thing you're making up and you'll do great. And coming to the herpes opportunity seminar in NC at the end of October is a must. All of this and more will be covered throughout the weekend. The weekend will be more about you than about herpes. You'll walk away from the weekend with a different, healthy perspective. That's my pitch. It'll be magically awesome. 🙂 And if you'd like me to coach you through it, feel free to grab a time on my calendar here so we can hop on the phone together: http://adriallifecoaching.com Good luck, CG! Again, good to see you back! I hope going back to school is going well for you, bro!

Hi sad_woman, There's a lot here. I understand why you would want revenge. I'm sorry that this guy lied about something so important. I'm sorry that he didn't respect you and your health. I'm sorry he did you wrong. No integrity. Anytime someone lies to us and we are affected by that lie by getting a lifelong STD, anger and vengeful thoughts make sense. I was cheated on by my girlfriend years ago who then gave me herpes. I know the feeling. And there is a certain amount of anger that is healthy. Once anger turns to hate, it becomes unhealthy for us, not the person being hated. Being angry with someone else for what they did to us is like ingesting poison and expecting the other person to die. It just doesn't work over the longterm. So how to get over it without killing someone? Forgiveness. Forgive yourself, forgive him. For your own good. The more you fantasize about hurting him, how much you hate him, how horrible he is, how horrible your life is going to be because of him, etc., the more suffering you put yourself through. Ultimately, what's done is done. And that is not to minimize what this guy has done. This is not to say that what he did is okay in any way. And now that you have herpes, you can't change that part. It is now a part of you. It doesn't define you, however, unless you let it. The sooner you can learn to love yourself with herpes and be happy, the sooner you will move on. Much love, sad_woman. You deserve to take care of yourself and forgive. All that energy that is going into anger and hatred can be refocused into your healing and inspiration in life. That's the biggest revenge you can possibly take on him. To move on and be happy. Here's a helpful post that you can read up on: http://herpeslife.com/herpes-help-one-magic-phrase/

Hey mariii, I'm glad you've joined the site and that you're also a support for openness and honesty. That's what we're building here. I'm sorry to hear that you've gone through such hostility when it sounds like all you were doing was being transparent and caring. Sounds like he took his anger out on you. Took his frustration against himself out on you. An emotional punching bag. If that's the case, you didn't deserve that. I assure you that honesty and integrity is a courageous and worthwhile path. It's not always easy, but it's worth it. It helps us stay more in touch with who we are at our core and what we stand for. And I love how you said that: It's not what happens to us in life, but how we react and respond. You've summed it up in a beautiful, concise nutshell there, mariii. And sounds like you have a good thing going with your guy. Congrats for that. Super congrats. And no, it doesn't sound twisted, you worrying about rejection. It sounds ... human. We all do it. Whether we have herpes or not. Whenever we tell someone we like them, we are facing the possibility of rejection. This is no different. And you're right, whether he says yes or no, you'll still be all right. I love that his safety is important to you. I see your heart there. And no, the longer you don't tell him about herpes, it's not dishonest. But there does come a time where not telling actually becomes a barrier to intimacy, a barrier to the relationship progressing in a purely emotional (not to mention physical) way. Having the herpes talk can actually be a connecting experience — as you have already read in the e-book: http://eepurl.com/b4IPP — and there have been many, many success stories through this website. Get right with yourself first, dispel the shame, know that you got it going on regardless and let your integrity and vulnerability rip. Know that you telling him about herpes says so much about who you are that it overshadows the simple virus. Herpes is just a skin condition compared to what you have to offer as a person. And hey, if you need a primer, let's hop on the phone and I'll coach you through it. I got a few minutes. Send me a private message and I'll help you out. :) Thank you for sharing here, mariii. Keep us up-to-date on how this progresses! We're rooting for you! :)

I'm proud of you for breaking the chain, elle. It takes a strong, courageous person with high integrity to do the opposite of what was done to them. And this is exactly the kind of way of being that changes the way the world works for the better. It's where the cycle of abuse gets broken and love emerges. And it takes more work, more awareness, more self-knowing. And it's worth it. Reminds me of a Mother Theresa poem ... "People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway. If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway. What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway. The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway. Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway." Thank you for your dedication to what you know is right, elle. A role model for integrity. And even when others don't do good, do good anyway. P.S. If you're interested in being a face of someone who is breaking the herpes shame cycle, email me. I'm looking for good people. ;)

Hi Whatsthescoop. Yes, if he takes suppressive therapy, you will decrease the chances by 50-80%, some studies say. Always a good thing to get on suppressive therapy to protect the partner who doesn't have herpes. Also, you're right that it's very unlikely he will pass herpes to you by kissing other parts of your body, but if he's having an outbreak, I would suggest he doesn't just in case. Herpes has been known to produce outbreaks in random places, so if there were a break in your skin, whether it's a cut or a popped zit, the virus could have an opening to the body. Better to play it safe and hold off on that until the virus is cleared up. And by the way, you can make it a game instead of an "ew gross" experience. Does that make sense? Playfully make the outbreak mean that he can touch you however he wants, but not with his mouth. My girlfriend and I play that game and it's pretty sexy. Switch the perspective and make it fun. Hold off on kissing anywhere until after the episode has passed, then reintroduce kissing ... the sparks will fly. ;)

Hey bro, thanks for venting here. And feel free to vent as much as you need to. We're here to hear you and support you. What you're feeling is common. And it's important that you let it out. If you did in fact give herpes to your girlfriend, then the best thing to do is to be transparent, be honest. You didn't do anything wrong. And yes, ignorance can be bliss (and can impact others). If you didn't know you had herpes, you didn't know. Our culture is unfortunately not that vigilant about testing for everything and getting tested consistently so we know our STD status. You can't beat yourself up about something you didn't know about. And if your girlfriend or the parents are upset, that's perfectly reasonable and understandable. But don't have that mean that you're a bad person. Have this mean that from here on out, now that you know, you'll stick to integrity and telling future partners. This is actually an opportunity for you to be honest and authentic in your relationships. Vulnerability leads to connection. And even though it may not seem like it now, you are going to be okay and live an awesome life (yes, even with herpes!). It's up to you how you choose to think about what having herpes is going to mean to you and how you live your life. Character is determined in how we relate to the things in our lives. Also, send me a private message if you'd like to talk one-on-one. I'm here to help.

Hi Lili, Thanks for reaching out. This is a tricky thing. Herpes can lie dormant in your body for quite a while before you have an actual outbreak. I was originally exposed to herpes and it took years before my first outbreak. Your boyfriend who got tested, is this the ONLY guy you've EVER been with? It's quite possible that either you got herpes from a previous boyfriend, even years ago. And it's also possible that your boyfriend's test was a false negative. I assume he got the IgG test or the Western Blot? It takes weeks for the body to build up enough antibodies to show up in a blood test, he may have gotten it recently and then exposed you to it ... As you can see, it's a tricky thing to start wondering who gave what to who. Ultimately, the important thing is that now that you have it, how are you coping with it? How are you feeling about it? How are you treating yourself in this process?

(Again: YAY! Okay, back to business ...) If they get herpes, they get it. Both of you are just as much partners in keeping them from getting herpes as anything else. But if it happens, it's no one's fault. There's no one to blame. Part of your partner's accepting you is also accepting the risk of getting herpes. You take just as much responsibility as they do in keeping them safe. Of course neither of you WANT it to happen and you take every precaution for it not to, but if it happens, it happens. And I love that you care about your new partner's health. Oh, and don't let the potential risk overshadow the fun, excitement, curiosity and beauty of your relationship. Ride that line of being careful yet not paranoid. And enjoy. :)

Yes! Totally. The power of the words we use is immense! The words we use literally shape our experience of life. If we call it a herpes attack, then we will feel attacked by herpes; if we call it an occurrence, it will simply occur, as you said. I love that you're being more aware of this. It's something that so many people pass by and don't take the time to consider how they are shaping how they label their lives. Here's an article I wrote on all this a while back: http://herpeslife.com/herpes-wordplay-the-power-of-words/

[As a precursor to this anecdote, YAY for appearing that you are seeing someone! ;) ] I take 400mg of Acyclovir 2x daily to protect my girlfriend from getting herpes. But I'm considering changing to Valacyclovir since it cuts down on viral shedding more than Acyclovir. I don't know about Valtrex, but I'm assuming that's high in the protecting viral shedding department since it's the high end version of medicating yourself. Check out this article for more on Acyclovir vs. Valacyclovir: http://depts.washington.edu/herpes/php_uploads/publications/Valacyclovir%20and%20acyclovir.pdf This site also has a whole lot of other niche herpes studies. I'm planning on reading all these studies in detail. Awesome find! http://depts.washington.edu/herpes/publications.php

Well that would make sense if I read deeper now wouldn't it? ;) Well I stand corrected, then ... :)

Yes, I've been reading up on this as well after an enlightening chat with a fellow member of this site and then a scientist at the virology research clinic at the University of Washington. The Western Blot measures 14 peptides vs. the IgG test's 2 ... I've heard that the IgG test 97% accurate while the Western Blot is 99.9%. Sometimes the IgG test misses actual herpes infections that the Blot will find due to measuring more peptides. Looking deeper into this, but this is what initial findings point to ... Keep us updated on what you find out!

This definitely makes me wonder ... I was always confused by Shakespeare's prose. Beautiful and poetic, yes, but damn hard to understand! ;) So if I understand it correctly, it refers to kisses and that kissing is a no-no, so someone named angry Mab gives them what they deserve: oral herpes. Is that right? Ha! I never was a lit major, but if how I'm reading it is true, it lines up with my understanding of what our society feels about intimacy: that somehow, underneath it all, passion and lust are sinful. And that STIs like herpes are some method of punishment to those who dare to follow their sinful desires. Of course, I think this is all bull-honky ... but who can argue with Shakespeare? ;)

"Bless your heart" is such a southern thing to say. You are really practicing your southern belle status. ;) And I'm glad that compassion is working for you over resentment. You know, just the other night I was talking with my dad about the Herpes Opportunity weekend workshop coming up, talking about how common it is for people who got herpes to resent the partners who gave it to them. He told me something I had never considered: The word "resentment" literally means to feel over and over again: "re-sentiment" ... And we are choosing to feel this negative feeling over and over again when we have a choice to feel something else that would be healthier and more productive for us in the long term. And here's the profound metaphor my dad offered me: Resenting someone else for doing something to us isn't just practicing the disempowering victim mentality, it's like taking shots of poison over and over again and expecting the other person to die. That really struck me ... By us resenting, we're only poisoning ourselves with negativity. The other person is oblivious to us resenting them. It's not retribution or "getting them back" ... It's simply continuing to give them power that they don't deserve and bringing us down in the process. So I vote for us taking our power back and learning from our past instead of dwelling on it. Sounds good to me. ;)

Ah, thank you, rothkkolady! That feels so good to hear (read). ;) I'm so glad you're here and you're getting value from this site being here. That's what it's all about. Much love! Big hugs!

Hi kittkatt, First off, thank you for sharing yourself so vulnerably here. I appreciate you wanting to find ways to forgive yourself. I hear that you're suffering with your decision to continue without a condom. And I understand how unfair this must seem to feel you have to disclose after you got it when you didn't have an option. And I hear that you have strong integrity. Messing up one time doesn't mean you don't have integrity. It's what you do with your messup that counts. Look, there are two sides to this coin: 1. Yes, you didn't disclose. You can find many reasons why you are a horrible person for doing this. And you can find many reasons why it was a mistake that shows you that you have high integrity. You wouldn't feel so horrible about it if you didn't care or have high integrity. AND 2. Shaming yourself and beating yourself up doesn't allow you to move on and act in your own integrity for the next time. It's like whipping a kid for years after they break a dish. Tell the kid that breaking a dish isn't a good idea. Then let it go. Let the kid learn. Somehow we feel that beating ourselves up will change our situation for the better in the future. But there has been studies that prove that the more we beat ourselves up, the more likely we'll be to repeat that same behavior in the future. Yes, learn from your mistakes. But don't continue to see yourself as a horrible, inauthentic person. You're an authentic person who stumbled. Now you're getting back up. Being compassionate and forgiving to yourself is the key to positive growth and positive change. I imagine in the future if you're put in that same situation, you will choose differently. You have learned from your misstep. You are not a bad person. You are a person who is healing, a person who is learning. Here's a blog post I wrote up on this exact phenomenon I'm speaking to about self-shaming vs. self-compassion and how that relates to growth: http://herpeslife.com/herpes-and-self-sabotage/

I feel you, firefly. I feel for your heart. It's not a stone heart by default. I imagine it's a heart that you're protecting with a solid shield surrounding it. And that shield may be there for good reason. There is always a good reason to protect our hearts. And there's equally good reason to open them, too. It's about knowing when is appropriate for both instead of it being an automatic reaction. We aren't born with stone hearts. They get that way by being hurt, by opening up and being disrespected, unloved. Hearts are taught to close if it's not safe to love. Hearts by default are meant to feel fully, to be impacted by life. This is a process of teaching your heart how to be semi-permeable: To let in and out the things you trust and to protect you from the things you don't. As far as the physical healing goes, I would ask your gyno or doctor what kind of numbing cream/healing cream would help healing and feeling more comfortable. Depending on where the outbreaks/tears are, certain creams/ointments are better/worse for that area. The more mucous membrane, the more delicate the tissue. Your best and quickest option to get answers for specific questions like these would be the free herpes hotline. Call either of these free hotlines to speak with a live knowledgeable operator (Herpes Opportunity isn't connected with either): (919) 361-8488 (M-F, 9a-7p EST) (206) 344-2539 (MWF 6:30-9p EST) Also, have you downloaded the free e-book "The Positive Guide to Herpes Disclosure" yet? It's a quick read and jam-packed with helpful tips to positively shift your perspective. Here's the link to download it: http://eepurl.com/b4IPP Keep taking good care of yourself. Not just physically, but mentally, too. Stay compassionate to yourself and your process of healing. Be a friend to yourself. Let me know if you need anything else or would like to talk one-on-one! I'm here for you!

Hey rightbrain! Good question. Short answer: Have a skype conversation with him before he comes. Why? It's a good happy medium between a phone conversation (where you can't see non-verbal cues, less intimate) and him flying there in person to have the herpes talk. Have you downloaded the free e-book yet? It's a quick read and jam-packed with helpful tips to shift your perspective. Here's the link to download it: http://eepurl.com/b4IPP Also, here's a video I made about herpes disclosure and when to have the herpes talk: Another thing, I understand why you might be holding yourself back, but know that most of that is you making that decision to hold yourself back. Very little of it is actually because you have this virus called herpes. You are making a decision to only date people you won't be serious with. It's becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't believe yourself when you think you'll be alone, that no one could possibly love you. Don't. Believe. It. I say that with love and support and firmness. I want you to really get that. I say this not to shame you about holding yourself back, but to show you that YOU are making that decision ... I want to show you that you have options if you take them. Don't be a victim to herpes. It has no power unless you give it power. A whole heck of a lot of this is you getting right with yourself about having herpes. Many people out there don't see herpes as a dealbreaker; they don't see it as a reason to stop a perfectly great relationship with a perfectly great person. But if you believe that you having herpes is a dealbreaker, then a fascinating thing happens: You start acting like it's a dealbreaker in how you relate, and it ends up being a dealbreaker. What I wish for you is to find in yourself all of the amazing things you are so you can prove to yourself that your awesomeness overshadows herpes. Herpes has never been big enough to stop you from taking in the love you deserve. You have made it that way through believing all the stigma and hype. When it comes down to it, it's a simple skin condition. It doesn't define who you are unless you let it. You're so much bigger than that. I don't even know you and I can promise you that you are allowing big parts of yourself to be covered up. Let yourself show more and no one will bat an eyelash at herpes. Be good with yourself, accept yourself, love yourself, and others will follow suit.

It was great to just talk with you on the phone just now! Just to sum up here on the forums for everyone else to read, what you're talking about here is a slight grey area around who discloses what, who has the "safer sex" conversation? Technically both people should be bringing up that chat whether or not they have an STD. And sometimes you slip, like what you're referring to here. And the key here is to learn from your slip and remember that for next time. Avoid beating yourself up about it, especially since it was such a minor transgression: There is such a low possibility that your genital HSV-2 somehow traveled to your mouth to expose him to herpes via oral sex. That's just such a slim chance as to be practically impossible. Sounds like you were as safe as you could be by not allowing him to go down on you nor have sex. You going down on him is the grey area. Since you have HSV-2 only in the nether regions and HSV-2 doesn't take up residents in the oral region, you going down on him is technically quite safe as far as he's concerned. And what you spoke to on the phone is a good thing to reiterate: Who knows what he might have to give you! By not having the disclosure conversation, you're assuming he doesn't have anything. Even giving him a blowjob could have given you HPV in your throat or any number of other STDs that are transmissible orally. Even HIV can be transmitted that way if you have any sort of cut in your mouth and he has any sort of cut on his penis. So having the safer sex conversation is just a great way for everyone to stay as safe as possible and be on the same page. Having the disclosure chat isn't just keeping your potential partner safe, it might actually be saving you from getting something else and building an bigger STD collection. ;) And regardless of the risk levels, it's clear that your conscience and integrity are having you stress out about that simple blowjob. So you're finding something out very important about where your own line in the sand is. You're finding out that next time you probably won't give a casual blowjob, for your sake just as much as his! Since we can't take that time machine back in time, all we can do is learn from what we do and make better choices next time. And if we feel we stepped on somebody else's foot, we try to make it right with them by being as honest as we can be. As far as moving forward with this, if you find out that both of you are interested in going further with a long-distance relationship, then be honest. Something along the lines of this: "Now that we're going to try a deeper relationship, I wanted you to know something that's hard for me to say, but I feel is important that you know: I have herpes. And know that it was a hard decision to make to not have told you sooner. I chose to not tell you, keep it casual and keep you as safe as I could by not letting you go down on me or have sex. The risk of transmitting HSV-2 orally are so low, but I still feel guilty about not having told you earlier. I decided against it since it was clear that we were having such a casual fling of a relationship and we never really got into anything serious." Or something like that. :) Whatever it is, speak whatever is true for you. Keep in mind, the fact that you are even having this discussion now, even when you feel that you might have messed up, shows your dedication to upholding your integrity. And having this discussion might just open up the door for the two of you to have your first real, vulnerable conversation, which builds a nice foundation for an honest and real relationship. Much love, inspired32. Keep us updated on how this goes ...

Hey Smiles! First off, congratulations on having an amazing new relationship with your guy! Always such an exciting, enlivening feeling. Ooh la la. ;) That's strange that the doctor claimed they could visually type test. Quite strange. Unless doc has some strange herpes vision superpower that I'm not aware of ... ;) And regardless of whether it's HSV-1 or HSV-2 on your genitals, it's still genital herpes. You will probably just have less outbreaks if it's type 1. And yes, disclosing can be scary, but it's all about your relationship to having herpes. If you disclose from being ashamed and feeling all sorts of wrong and nasty, it's going to come across that way. And then there's how you disclose from integrity and self-acceptance. That's the sweet spot. Have you downloaded the e-book yet? Here's the link for that: http://eepurl.com/b4IPP And why do you think that if you didn't get symptoms ever that you wouldn't have to deal with it? Yes, you wouldn't have to deal with outbreaks, but you'd still need to disclose to potential partners. There's still something called viral shedding. Read about that here: http://herpeslife.com/what-is-herpes-asymptomatic-viral-shedding/

I'm so HAPPY for you and PROUD that you felt the fear and did it anyway. Yet another shining example of him seeing you for who you are and not what you have. Beautiful. Here's to your new relationship ... :)

Hey CG, (First off: Let's keep this conversation on the respectful tip, shall we? Seems like you're angry at whoever else holds a different viewpoint from you on this. And it seems misdirected. I'm on your side, bro. I'm taking a stand for you being happy and feeling free. I love that you're bringing your viewpoint with such conviction ... I just hope you aren't stepping on others in the process and I hope you bring an open mind, too. As much as I welcome anger here on these boards, I would hope you would have more respect on how you're directing it.) And I totally hear your frustration. I get it. I hear your anger. I went through that for years. And what I came to realize is that it was misdirected. I got herpes from my girlfriend cheating on me with her ex over Christmas holiday. Talk about being pissed off about feeling like I *should* disclose something that for all reasons I *shouldn't* have gotten in the first place ... So yes, with a certain viewpoint, feeling like you have to disclose can feel like a burden. It can feel unfair that we go through an extra layer before being intimate with someone. And it can also be seen as going a layer deeper with someone who you're going to be intimate with. Intimacy without vulnerability? Seems like a disconnect for me. I have a question for you: What has you wanting to not disclose? Your question is "Why disclose?" and my question is "Why not?" I understand you say there's not a lot backing up that genital HSV2 can spread orally. Got it. But in my experience, oral sex isn't too far away from regular sex. And a good general practice for people who are going to be intimate in any way together is to at least discuss sexual history (if not your hopes, dreams and getting to know each other as human beings). And it seems we're more on the same page than you're proposing ... we're both on the side of taking the regret, self-pity and being permanently miserable off the table when it comes to having herpes. Yes! Totally! You got my vote. Ding ding. Where we seem to stray to different pages is where you think disclosing represents all of that horrible stuff; yes, I do see disclosing as an opportunity for deeper intimacy and trust. I don't see disclosing and happiness/self-acceptance as mutually exclusive. I see disclosing as being real, honest, high integrity, intimate, caring. I see it as an act of celebrating who you are that overshadows this thing called herpes. This is all stuff we will be discussing and experiencing to a great degree at the upcoming weekend seminar in October. I totally invite your viewpoint there so we can have a full discussion about this and explore it all. Totally welcome and encouraged. http://thehopp.com